Denon SC5000 Prime

[SlayForMoney]

Tellor, please remove the soundcloud player from your signature, it's against the forum rules.

On the matter of Denon, as people already said, the main problems are slow software development of Engine Prime (still at 1.0 version, without support for MCX8000) and some limitations on the side of players (database sharing is limited to 2.4GB. Database refers to EP database, not the size of tracks on the HDD/USB).

That said, they are making an impact. I already know several DJ purchasing the entire sets, even some rentals. A few people in my town bough a single SC5000 and are using the dual layer feature to gig with a single player instead of a laptop/controller/s combo and using the club's mixer.

As Reticuli already pointed out, Engine has nothing to do with Mixvibes, Mostapha mixed it up with early version of Rekordbox.
The only thing standing in the way of Denon is their own slow pace of software development before Pioneer bring out the answer to the Prime range and they now have 1 year less than before.

[Reticuli]

Tellor, please remove the soundcloud player from your signature, it's against the forum rules.

On the matter of Denon, as people already said, the main problems are slow software development of Engine Prime (still at 1.0 version, without support for MCX8000) and some limitations on the side of players (database sharing is limited to 2.4GB. Database refers to EP database, not the size of tracks on the HDD/USB).

That said, they are making an impact. I already know several DJ purchasing the entire sets, even some rentals. A few people in my town bough a single SC5000 and are using the dual layer feature to gig with a single player instead of a laptop/controller/s combo and using the club's mixer.

As Reticuli already pointed out, Engine has nothing to do with Mixvibes, Mostapha mixed it up with early version of Rekordbox.
The only thing standing in the way of Denon is their own slow pace of software development before Pioneer bring out the answer to the Prime range and they now have 1 year less than before.

I could care less about Rekordbox analogs, as I don't even use Rekordbox much as it is. KUVO downloading your library and identity for the PROs, anyone? No thanks.
I do understand how its slow dev is holding back people from embracing Engine Prime, and of course the linking and database limitations are issues. It doesn't make sense for quad core computers to not be able to write to NTSF or see all files on a hard drive or share those drives between the players. At least it can read NTSF. (correction, it can't read NTSF. WTF?)
Even though Denon and Rane make better sounding DJ mixers, I would tolerate even existing Pioneer gear, though, if on all the firmware they got rid of the stupid jog bend dead zone (or made it optional under settings) and added a 32% pitch range with 0.1% increments. That's even possible on older units by lighting up the 6, 10, and 16% at the same time.
Oh, and I'd like a retro mode on them, too. Denon, however, is much more likely to add a retro mode than Pioneer, though. They have always had more options, like additional pitch ranges. And you don't have Pulse to deal with. Heh heh. Two recent doozies were words to the effect of 'there's no reason to go over 0dB on the meters of a DJ mixer' and 'our jog wheels would start spinning on their own and pitch bending if there wasn't a dead zone'. Mentioning that 0.5 pitch resolution basically makes their Wide mode useless falls on deaf ears. I get a sense that the Pioneer engineers are very separate from their customer service. Denon and inMusic, I've spoken directly with their product managers and engineers over the years.

[SlayForMoney]

Reticuli, how the frack are you able to turn every fracking topic into your monologue about jog dead zone and pitch fader increment on wide setting?

[Tellor01]

New update about ENGINE PRIME finally guys !!!!

Engine Prime update to v1.1 - the latest version of Denon DJ’s proprietary music analysis and librarian software, features improved iTunes folder management, improved library search capability and performance enhancements too. Loops and cue points can now be added while a track is still being analyzed, and searches are much more flexible / powerful. Engine

Prime v1.1 can be downloaded on the link below:

http://denondj.com/engineprime

**Engine Prime 1.1 Release Notes**

**IMPORTANT**

Engine Prime 1.1 software is compatible with all versions of Prime Supported Hardware - SC5000.

Engine Prime 1.1 databases on your computer are **not backwards compatible** with your existing internal Engine Prime 1.0 system database on your computer. Reverting your computer back to Engine Prime 1.0 after upgrade may cause undesired behavior and loss of collection integrity.

We recommend making a backup copy of the Music/Engine Library folder as an extra safety precaution before upgrading.

**New Features:**

* iTunes playlists can now be copied to Engine Prime playlist and crate areas via right click menu or dragging.
* iTunes now displays subfolder playlists.
* Engine Prime now supports Custom iTunes XML database location.
* Filters now highlight all shown related compatible keys and BPMs when selecting items in the lists.
* Right clicking a playlist can now make any custom sort order the new playlist order.
* Missing songs that could not be packed to a drive are now listed in a missing files crate.
* Loops and Cues can now be placed before analysis is complete.
* Search: Using spaces now allows the user to search text within multiple fields at once.
* New “Job Monitor” feature is accessible on the lower right corner of the application. This feature helps the scheduling of song packing to drives, adding tracks to collections, and other processes.
* The amount of songs selected is now shown at the bottom of the screen.

**Improvements:**

* Improved robustness of Crate and Playlist system
* Improved removable drive “packing” system Fixed where “Date Added” and “Date Created” were not shown
* Fixed an issue on Windows where some external drives do not show up as external drives.
* Fixed where under rare circumstances, tracks would end up in the wrong playlists/crate after packing.
* Fixed a potential crash which could occur when updating the iTunes Library within Engine Prime.
* Fixed where meta tag data was not shown when navigating within the system file tree
* Other misc. improvements and changes.

**Other Changes:**

ASIO Support has been removed from Engine Prime 1.1. Windows users, please select the Windows WASAPI versions of your desired audio interface to continue.

To download Engine Prime 1.1 - Please click on the link above.

[mostapha]

I'll just restate that while everybody has their own desires before making the switch (e.g., mine are beats to cue exactly like traktor and instant doubles or "copy deck", again, exactly like traktor) that widespread adoption is both simpler and more difficult than any of us would like to think...

It realy seems like the vast majority of DJs (based on going out and listening, talking to people outside of DJTT, boilerroom, be-at.tv, other videos, etc..) don't care at all about "performance" features or other computer-y stuff. They need to be able to show up, plug in a USB key, and play...with sane default settings, a minimal union of features that just works, and no waiting around.

Remember....for every James Zebiela, there are probably 100 people who at most use platters, pitch faders, and hot cues playing every night in a lot of bars and clubs that we, having more discerning tastes than the majority of punters, would never go into.

I get the complexities of HID compatibility. But, I don't think there's any reason why a Denon player couldn't read a DB file built in any application and automatically use the BPM from the metadata tags or DB, plus saved hot cues and loops, also from any DB, right away, without the need for analysis.

All you absolutely have to lose is quantize.

And, I haven't played with a Prime player and a RB stick....so if it works that way already, they're 90% of the way there. DJWorx's review seemed to imply that it didn't read BPM from anywhere and automatically turned off sync (even when set to tempo sync as opposed to beat sync), even though basically all the other controls technically worked.

As long as they publicize it, that would cover the technical barriers for the vast majority of normal DJs.

And anybody doing anything more complex is probably better served with a controller/DVS setup anyway.

The thing holding back adoption is that people aren't requesting it. That won't happen until big guys, who aren't traveling with their own gear and an equipment tech/roadie, start requesting it and young guys at least don't have a strong preference for Pioneer.

Neither of those will happen unless they start giving stuff to big clubs and come out with more budget gear...a full line of it that unqeustionably rivals every step of Pioneer's entire ecosystem, even if they lose money on the cheap stuff.

Try to think about how clueless you were when you started. Think about how it is now...people wanting to get into it now have much more access to photos and videos of their heroes. They don't know why a nxs2 setup is better than a DDJ-RB, but the logos are the same, so they've got to be close...right? The "pro" stuff is unreasonably expensive (which makes people dream about it) and has a bunch more knobs of unknown purpose.

The funny thing is that the clueless beginner view is a lot more accurate now than it was twenty years ago when you were dreaming about 1200s and a Rane but bought Gemini decks and a Behringer.

[Reticuli]

RB conversion on the players doesn't even have to be the entire drive, as I believe you can do specific folders if your drive is appropriately divided up that way. So a very large drive that might take 30 min to convert the whole thing doesn't necessarily have to be entirely converted to Prime to be used to have access to RB info. And if you have a large drive that isn't set up that way, you obviously don't have to utilize the RB info in order to DJ. If you can live without RB, you can still DJ like anyone else could just showing up with a random fat32 drive.

Looking at this Engine Prime update, I don't see any mention of database size limits or the maximum number of tracks yet. I also don't see track offloading over ethernet function yet. So right now it can't even do what the old versions of RB could. Heck, even old Engine could do track offloading over ethernet.

As for the good old days of buying literally a 1200 clone from Gemini (I think they were the only brand that ever even attempted that), I think the potential is still there not just for TTs but USB fat32 drive media playback... maybe not currently involving Gemini (don't get me started), but there's other stuff out there from other brands that is very inexpensive and is functional for real DJing. Pioneer's race to the top in the booth by the extreme lowering of the bar through enticing both lazy rich famous DJs and talent-less wannabee newbs alike into this turn key laptop-like ecosystem is as much our fault by accommodating them or even booking them in the first place.

[Tellor01]

It realy seems like the vast majority of DJs (based on going out and listening, talking to people outside of DJTT, boilerroom, be-at.tv, other videos, etc..) don't care at all about "performance" features or other computer-y stuff. They need to be able to show up, plug in a USB key, and play...with sane default settings, a minimal union of features that just works, and no waiting around.

So fucking true a lot of DJ in the underground place don't care about Hot Cue Slicer... even waveform or BPM ! they don't need or want computer stuff like serato & traktor ! Just like me ! i have two SC5000 they are amazing but less features or effects = better quality dj set + better selections of tracks ! it's very cool to have all the traktor features but they are not very essential to mix ! it's depend what you're style of music too

Looking at this Engine Prime update, I don't see any mention of database size limits or the maximum number of tracks yet. I also don't see track offloading over ethernet function yet. So right now it can't even do what the old versions of RB could. Heck, even old Engine could do track offloading over ethernet.

yes it's a shame but seriously guys what's the point to have more than 10000 tracks if you play just 200 tracks ? less quantity = better quality

[mostapha]

So fucking true a lot of DJ in the underground place don't care about Hot Cue Slicer... even waveform or BPM ! they don't need or want computer stuff like serato & traktor ! Just like me ! i have two SC5000 they are amazing but less features or effects = better quality dj set + better selections of tracks ! it's very cool to have all the traktor features but they are not very essential to mix ! it's depend what you're style of music too

I mostly agree that less = better. There are a few people that seem to be able to make it work (Richie Hawtin, Dubfire, and Chris Liebing come to mind), but if you watch them mix (rather than showing off their setups), they're not doing that much. Hawtin probably does the most. And IMHO, his sets seem to have the most risk of screwing everything up (out of that highly-technical techno/minimal group).

The thing is...for the people who do want to do things....they all want to do different things. Which means companies who need to market to all of those people need their stuff to do everything. And it's up to the DJs to ignore things they don't care about.

Being able to do everything isn't about actually being able to do eveything...it's about being able to do the things you want to do the way you want to do them.

That's why I keep flirting with incorporating Live or Maschine into my DJ kit. There's one effect I want that I can't get Traktor to do (though Pioneer kit gets a lot closer...I just don't like the controls for it on their club-standard stuff). Live and Maschine make it almost trivial. And while sample decks (or just tracks with saved loops) could take care of everything I'd want to add, either Live or Maschine could add the couple finishing touches.

That's how people (who still play good sets) occasionally wind up with such complex setups...and it's also why beginners (and certain pros) wind up doing way too damn much....they have the capability and they figure they should be shoehorning all of it into a set that would have been better without it.

But, I stand by my beliefs about Denon. I don't think they're going to be able to get me to buy their stuff. It's too expensive for too many sacrifices to what I want to do and how I want to do it. Fortunately, it also doesn't matter as I'm not likely to tour any time soon and am perfectly happy with that.

[Reticuli]

So fucking true a lot of DJ in the underground place don't care about Hot Cue Slicer... even waveform or BPM ! they don't need or want computer stuff like serato & traktor ! Just like me ! i have two SC5000 they are amazing but less features or effects = better quality dj set + better selections of tracks ! it's very cool to have all the traktor features but they are not very essential to mix ! it's depend what you're style of music too



yes it's a shame but seriously guys what's the point to have more than 10000 tracks if you play just 200 tracks ? less quantity = better quality

I don't play pre-defined playlists and sets.

As for the comment about less features is better, I often agree with that, but I need my pitch resolution, my ability to actually jog bend and not have it ignore what I'm doing, and the new key correction quality on the Denon is VERY appealing to me, not to mention their promise that you will eventually be able to lock the key to somewhere other than its default and even change it like I could do in software.

[mostapha]

Serious question...why not use software? If it easily does everything you want.


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