Intro's and Outro's
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  1. #1
    Tech Wizard M.Hugh's Avatar
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    Default Intro's and Outro's

    This might be a basic question but what is the length of time you generally mix an outro and intro of a new song before fading over to the new song? I am mixing 32 beats but seems like it might be too long.

    I know this is very general but looking for some advice, Mark

    32 beats
    16 beats
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  2. #2
    Mr. Golden EanGolden's Avatar
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    This is a great subject for a dj tutorial. it depends on the song you are mixing into and if there are vocals. It requires a fairly long answer though. Let me put that on my list for dj tutorials.

    Basically, 32 counts if a good rule of thumb for hip hop and 64 for house.

  3. #3
    Retired DJTT Moderator DvlsAdvct's Avatar
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    In my experience lots of songs are unique for this. For me it's on a case by case basis. I have some mixes that are 64 beats of overlapping and layering, mixing through frequencies, and some that are one beat quick transitions.

    Hell, sometimes you don't even need the outro or the intro, you just drop the beats, hard style :-)
    It's the FAQ. Read it.

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    Multiples of 8 are pretty standard.

  5. #5
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    Whatever sounds good
    If it builds tension, I ride it, if it doesn't or there's a key clash, then I try to do a fast switcheroo

    P.S. I play prog house / prog trance / melodic trance
    Last edited by whiskers; 04-14-2008 at 05:29 PM.

  6. #6
    Tech Guru jasonj's Avatar
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    Default How to place a mix...

    I recently picked up a book to see if I could find some useful snippets on how to tighten up my mixing and theory of how I approach djing.

    here is some of what it says:

    Where to overlap your mix:
    Imagine two very simple records. Each has a 16-bar percussion intro, a 16-bar percussion outro, and some meaty music in between. like this...


    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ================ - - - - - - - -
    |<16bar Int. >|< Song >|<16bar Out.>|

    Simple intro to outro is the easiest way to mix these. Wait for the percussion outro of record one. When this arrives, start record two going. You now have 16 bars where two records overlap in which to do your mix ( this could be a cut or a blend, it does not matter)
    This style creates a kind of drum break in between the two songs. Some djs might emphasize this further by playing a basic rhythm track as a "bridge" record (maybe the "bonus beats" of the song they're about to bring in, for us digital Djs we can set loops). This style works well for deep, pergressive genres like tribal or tech-house.

    Tighter Mixing:
    If you know where things happen in record one, you can make the mix tighter. For example, maybe when the last chorus starts, you know you have 16bars until the start of the outro. Use this moment to signal to start record two. Blend it in and bingo - just as the meaty part of record 1 finishes, the meat of record 2 kicks in. This is "couture mixing" - you can't see the stitching.
    This style keeps the music at a peak and offers no chance for anyone to lose interest, so it works well for todays dance floors (which have the attention span of a gnat). You'll hear someone like Roger Sanchez pull it off to perfection: Bamm straight out of one song and straight into another. No pause and no breath, no drop in energy.

    Even tighter mixing:
    An even more energetic (or exhausting) method of mixing is to mix straight after a chorus. ou time it so that the big opening moment in record 2 happens immediately after the chorus in record one shoots its shot.
    This can be very effective with break beat genres (hip-hop, two-step, etc..) because it keeps the energy up in relatively mellow music. Here the mix would most likely be a cut. Done with house and trance (using sharp blends), it quickly becomes fever-pitch overkill - the dj equivalent of a sledgehammer.

    Long melodic blends:
    So far, our mixes have kept the meat of the songs separate. This is a safe bet, because it avoids key clashes and prevents the full-on melodies getting tangled.However, if you have two songs that go together beautifully, don't have to be so precise. Here you can quite happily bring record 2 in long before record 1 goes anywhere, let the melodies make love for awhile, and then fade-out record one.
    This is how most progressive djs play. It works well for records that build slowly and are very repetitive.

    Breaks and Breakdowns:
    This is great for Djs because they don't have to wait for the real ending; you can use the break instead.
    Most songs have some kind of break about two thirds to three quarters of the way through. On a record, you can usually see where it is - it's that dark ring (quieter grooves are darker )
    In software you will see the waveform or stripe become thinner.
    Mixing out of a break is more or less the same as mixing out of an outro. You time it so that as record 1 goes down into its break, record 2 is building up from its intro.
    Of course, a lot depends on how record 1 breaks down and how record 2 builds up. You have to think about each pair of songs and how they might mix.
    In the digital realm I find setting a large loop region ( 32beats or more ) in record 2 and cutting the loop region in half during each cue to create a "fake build" when at the peak and when it musically makes sense cut the playback of record one and normal playback of record two.

    Ultimately when your mixing and you get your own sense of rhythm, know your records/songs and become comfortable on the gear. Your imagination will be the greatest toll in finding all the nooks and crannies to preform seamless mixing.

    -----------------------------------------------

    The book I took this from is called :
    How to DJ right : the art and science of playing records
    by : Frank Broughton and Bill Brewster
    http://www.groveatlantic.com

  7. #7
    Tech Mentor
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    that book is amazing.

  8. #8
    Tech Guru jasonj's Avatar
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    Yeah I kinda like it as well. Some good points in it.
    Another one I like as well takes an overall look on remixing. Talks about a few techniques that can be implemented on a variety of gear/software

    "The remixers bible":build better beats by francis preve.

    A lot of good pointers in there for djs and producers alike. From beginner to pro.

  9. #9
    Tech Wizard
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonj View Post
    I recently picked up a book to see if I could find some useful snippets on how to tighten up my mixing and theory of how I approach djing.

    The book I took this from is called :
    How to DJ right : the art and science of playing records
    by : Frank Broughton and Bill Brewster
    http://www.groveatlantic.com

    Got this book a week ago, it's pretty cool - definitely more for the beginner type, but I did learn a few great things about it (for example, that mixing progressive almost always relies on arranging the keys so that the energy level is always seems to rise; and other such things).


    They talk about tracks 'making love to each other' - long blends that work really well together. It's pretty awesome when you get it right, in my most recent mix I cued in the mids of the second track while the first track was playing and played with the mids, fading in and out for a good 2 minutes, until the transition - it turned out so good, I myself couldn't tell later from listening where I transitioned from one track to another. Usually, however, the blends are around a minute - a minute and a half

  10. #10
    Tech Guru jasonj's Avatar
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    Yeah thats the reason that I picked it up for some perhaps a few hidden little gems it may contain in the pages.

    However I was lucky enough to have a very talented dj her in my local area teach me the basics, as well some knowledge passed through various other friends when it comes to mixing.

    I have found that when im at the top of my game I can seamlessly blend tacks for up to 15 minutes. The genre is progressive and techno though so the ease is there. When I have accomplished this the feeling is just utter happiness and excitement. My wife thinks I might be crazy. I think she just does not get it.

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