Stepping it up!
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Thread: Stepping it up!

  1. #1
    Tech Guru Gryz's Avatar
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    Default Stepping it up!

    Ok, so I have gotten the hang of controllerism, at least with what I set out to accomplish. I have a few questions though.

    Using just a controller, a Hercules Steel which I love, I would like to know if it is possible to beat match without using anything external...no TT or CJs. I can easily use sync, which I have been doing, but coming from a very musical background, I would like to beatmatch.

    It appears if I have scratch "off" I can speed up or slow down a track by minor adjustments if I use the jog wheels...is this considered beatmatching even though I can see how much the beats are off above the wave form?

    My next question relates to the last. I find that if I bring in a song that is a lot faster or slower than the last, and sync it, it will sometimes get a little distorted. If the songs are not so far apart in BPM this will not happen. So when transitioning, what is the average standard deviation of the two tracks you are playing? +-1, +-5 ect...And if the songs are very
    far apart, how do you transition?

    Thanks a lot for your help this far!
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    Tech Guru Gryz's Avatar
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    Bump before the UK guys go to bed ;-)
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    Schreiberie Meister Afterhour Ali's Avatar
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    It appears if I have scratch "off" I can speed up or slow down a track by minor adjustments if I use the jog wheels...is this considered beatmatching even though I can see how much the beats are off above the wave form?
    You should learn it by using just your ears.

    If you have scratch off set, the jog-wheels pitchbend the track. they slow it down/speed it up for as long as you use the jogwheel. That is a good way to beatmatch two tracks.

    what is the average standard deviation of the two tracks you are playing? +-1, +-5 ect.
    It depends on the situation. You can go up/down slowly within a few tracks or make a big leap and create tension. You probably should start practicing with tracks whose BPM are close together.

    Sorry I don't have time for a detailed answer, but I guess the other guys around here will take care of it.

    And one more thing:
    Don't bump 24 hours before your last post. I don't think we have a rule for that here, but 1 day is appropriate.
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    Tech Guru Gryz's Avatar
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    Thank you for the help and advice! Sorry about the bump btw.

    Ok, so what I guess this leads to is this. I assume that having a ton of tracks gradually fills the gaps in between those tracks that I have that are far apart in BPM...so the more tracks the better right?

    My next question is this: I have no problem with controllerism...but I would like to maybe get some used CDJs to practice on for when I land a gig. Can I use my controller with two CDJs? Would the controller in essence turn into a mixer and I would then just use the looping and such on the CDJ or would I still be able to use my controller for FX, Loop ect...?

    I Am running Tpro, so would I need T scratch for use with the CDJs and an upgrade to an Audio4 DJ instead of my Audio2?

    Thanks again!
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    Tech Guru sarasin's Avatar
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    Audio 4 would suit you better....and yes you will need TSP to use Timecode CD's.

    Not with you in regards to pitching tho. This can all be done within Traktor.

    Just map a knob or something to the pitch fader in Traktor.
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    Tech Guru Gryz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarasin View Post
    Audio 4 would suit you better....and yes you will need TSP to use Timecode CD's.

    Not with you in regards to pitching tho. This can all be done within Traktor.

    Just map a knob or something to the pitch fader in Traktor.

    Wouldn't this render the pitch faders on the CJD useless then? If I spent some big moneys on CDJs, I would hope to use them to their full potential.

    I'm just unsure of what becomes useless on my controller if I choose to use cdjs with it....
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    Retired DJTT Moderator DvlsAdvct's Avatar
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    Even though it's been a few months, it's good to see the questions are the same. I say that with love, before I give advice.

    You have two separate posts with two very different objectives, so let's start with the first one.

    Using just a controller, a Hercules Steel which I love, I would like to know if it is possible to beat match without using anything external...no TT or CJs. I can easily use sync, which I have been doing, but coming from a very musical background, I would like to beatmatch.
    Yes, you can easily do this. As said above, you need to use your ears, as that is what the technique is all about. You can visualize the beats but that has nothing to do with the quality of the mix.

    Start by mixing songs that are similar tempos. Don't use the sync button, and nudge the tracks back and forth so they fit. I would assign the "scratch" function or whatever on the jog wheel to pitch bend, personally, as the pitch fader is relatively useless imho, once you get above a 6% pitch bend.

    It appears if I have scratch "off" I can speed up or slow down a track by minor adjustments if I use the jog wheels...is this considered beatmatching even though I can see how much the beats are off above the wave form?
    That is a technique used to assist in beatmatching. Beatmatching, overall, is pretty self explanatory. it is the method used by DJs to match the beats of two songs. bending the pitch is a way to do that.

    My next question relates to the last. I find that if I bring in a song that is a lot faster or slower than the last, and sync it, it will sometimes get a little distorted. If the songs are not so far apart in BPM this will not happen. So when transitioning, what is the average standard deviation of the two tracks you are playing? +-1, +-5 ect...And if the songs are very
    far apart, how do you transition?
    There are a few questions in here. First, the distortion you're hearing is highly likely to be tied to your soundcard getting overwhelmed by the pitch increase. When you increase the tempo of a song, you're also increasing the actual pitch of the song. Software has a key lock, and if the RAM of your computer, the quality of your sound card, or a few other factors aren't up to snuff it will start distorting. When I was regularly spinning on CDs I'd notice a SLIGHT difference once I hit around 3.5%, so below that and you should be golden.

    Also, keep in mind that not all transitions need to be beatmatched, so you aren't stuck at that one point. There are many mixing techniques (which have been spoken about on the forums ad nauseum) that you can use to change tempos.

    My next question is this: I have no problem with controllerism...but I would like to maybe get some used CDJs to practice on for when I land a gig. Can I use my controller with two CDJs? Would the controller in essence turn into a mixer and I would then just use the looping and such on the CDJ or would I still be able to use my controller for FX, Loop ect...?
    Yes, you can do this, as was discussed, and the Audio4, as said, would be best.

    Wouldn't this render the pitch faders on the CJD useless then? If I spent some big moneys on CDJs, I would hope to use them to their full potential.
    This is perfectly fine. Use the CDJ pitch fader and map your Hercules to do whatever you want it to do.

    Good luck
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    Tech Guru Gryz's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for that info! It was a great help and I have a way better grasp of everything now!

    One quick question to end all questions...You say to "nudge" the tracks for beatmatching...is this by way of the pitch faders, or like discussed, using the jog wheels?
    I took it as, not to use the pitch faders, but instead, use the jog wheels. Or is it a combination of both, using the pitch fader to get it close and then the jog wheels for minor adjustments?
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    Retired DJTT Moderator DvlsAdvct's Avatar
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    When I said nudge I meant just using the jog wheel. But once you get the tempo close with the pitch fader, nudging with the jog wheel is fine too
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  10. #10
    Tech Guru Gryz's Avatar
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    Thank you again for the answer. I was experimenting doing this after I typed and have another question.

    Say one track is at 140 and the other at 138. If I bring in the 138 and use the jog wheels to speed it up, while letting the two tracks play together, the 138 track will begin to slow down again and go out of sync with the 140. How do I get it to stay up to speed with the 140 and stay there?
    I tried using the pitch faders to get close...mine moves by 0.17 bpm increments at a time, so I couldn't reach 140 exactly, only 140.17. After using the jog wheel to bring it down a little to 140, the same problem happens.

    Edit: So after doing some more reading, I see that my pitch fader need some work. They aren't sensitive enough. If I change the settings to relative, I can alter them to increase my lesser and lesser amounts, but it takes away from the range if I do this. Is there a way to have them act like that on a CDJ or something similar?
    Last edited by Gryz; 08-04-2010 at 05:42 PM.
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