for those who dont scratch...

[chrisw]

Do you think you would rather have something else other than a second jog wheel?

As for faders does optical over the standard make a difference?

And would modular buttons be something you would want?

[theory28]

Do you think you would rather have something else other than a second jog wheel?

not really. and one jog would need to work 2- 4 or more decks. that would mean theres a need for another out of place button. not to mention that midi controllers need to not look like toys, and to do that they need to represent the 2 deck and a mixer set up. and if they dont, it better be damn amazing

As for faders does optical over the standard make a difference?

good god yes! optical is a billion times better, durible and reliable. but if you dont scratch its not as important, and the benefits that apply are: life span/ can take a beating (slamming the fader)

And would modular buttons be something you would want?

yes, but then the whole thing would need to be modular

[chrisw]

theory say the other jog wheel was replaced by touch screen or some type of modular expansion slot or accessory of the users choosing?

As for modular buttons like say people were giving 3 different configuration options?

[dj-pc]

I don't agree that for a midi controller jogs make it look less toy, I even think controllers should completely be different from the conventional setup, what's the use of going back to the conventional setup with controllers when you can create whole new interfaces of dj'ing and really be original.
look at the apc40, I think it looks much less toy than a numark omni control or something, with jogs!
I'm not saying to really go extreme, basicly I think there are a lot of controller out there with jogs (mostly cheap ones, not like the vci series) that really look like toys, and that other controllers like the xone's and the launchpads look much more pro...

[photojojo]

IMO nothing scrubs through a track better than a jog. You could maybe run your finger in circles on a touch screen to simulate a jog, but the screen would have to be pretty big and then your talking about much larger costs.

[fullenglishpint]

IMO nothing scrubs through a track better than a jog. You could maybe run your finger in circles on a touch screen to simulate a jog, but the screen would have to be pretty big and then your talking about much larger costs.

+1

[photojojo]

And I'm beginning to have a problem with all the people that see jogs and automatically think scratching and scratching only. They claim those that want them are clinging to the old way when in fact they're the ones that have tunnel vision.

It's not just scrubbing through tracks though, a single touch sensitive jog can be used to trigger cues, change FX parameters beatmatch etc.... If you want to innovate on the jog you could make one with maybe three or four different touch sensitive sections on top creating even more possibilities.

[fullenglishpint]

And I'm beginning to have a problem with all the people that see jogs and automatically think scratching and scratching only. They claim those that want them are clinging to the old way when in fact they're the ones that have tunnel vision.

It's not just scrubbing through tracks though, a single touch sensitive jog can be used to trigger cues, change FX parameters beatmatch etc.... If you want to innovate on the jog you could make one with maybe three or four different touch sensitive sections on top creating even more possibilities.

Thinking about it, when the iPod came around in 2001 it was hailed as a revolution with that famous scroll wheel, but Pioneer also brought out the first CDJ-1000 in 2001 and (wikipedia tells me) the iPod didn't become touch sensitive until 2002 . Jog wheels are by no means an outdated technology, and just because music doesn't necessarily come on round discs any more doesn't mean there's a better way of scrubbing through a track than going round and round in a circle... maybe vestax should have put a 6ft long fader for that on the new VCI-100 mk2?

[chrisw]

IMO nothing scrubs through a track better than a jog. You could maybe run your finger in circles on a touch screen to simulate a jog, but the screen would have to be pretty big and then your talking about much larger costs.

True but you need to think if the end result is something 10 steps ahead of everyone else is it not worth it?

And I'm beginning to have a problem with all the people that see jogs and automatically think scratching and scratching only. They claim those that want them are clinging to the old way when in fact they're the ones that have tunnel vision.

It's not just scrubbing through tracks though, a single touch sensitive jog can be used to trigger cues, change FX parameters beatmatch etc.... If you want to innovate on the jog you could make one with maybe three or four different touch sensitive sections on top creating even more possibilities.

A SINGLE touch sensitive jog. Exactly. You said it yourself. Single. So a SINGLE jog wheel on one side and browser mixer on the other. Because I honestly dont use the 2nd jog, and i know some dont either. Like what im suggesting is a design meant for those who mix or only use one jog wheel and would rather put the 2nd jogwheel space to better use.

[dj-pc]

where in my post did I say jogs are unnecessary? if you like using jogs for browsing, why not?

@photojojo: the problem is more that the companies making the controllers are making the jogs look too important, and make it look as though their specially designed for scratching and you still need this function nowadays! this is probably why theory28 thinks it looks more professional to have jogs... The point just is that a controller doesn't have to look like a cd setup to look 'real'

for example, a special rotary that kinda feels like a jog (or something like the xone 1d's jog) would do even better for browsing stuff, it doesn't take up a lot of space for other controls, and does it's job just as good..
the marketing people tell us that we need a jog, eventually most find that it doesn't work well for scratching but better for for example browsing, so why put two jogs? maybe the whole concept of the controller could be rethought, without this 2nd jog?
it's not because the people at pioneer thought that at the time those cd players were a very good way of dj'ing, that we now have to go back to exactly the same way of dj'ing, when technology has evolved, maybe it's logical when you're used to cd's, so I say implement the good things of the cd setup, and then try to make it better and reinvent the dj setup, the pioneer people couldn't have done it perfectly!!
The concept of the jog wheel worked with cdj's, now it doesn't work for scratching on controllers, so as I said, make them smaller or make them control effects, and make them do it well in stead of trying to make it look as though they could handle scratching!

edit: I see chrisw just said the same about the 2nd jog while I was posting