could the s4 kill 3rd party traktor controllers?
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  1. #1
    Tech Guru xtianw's Avatar
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    Default could the s4 kill 3rd party traktor controllers?

    Hear me out here. Just thinking out loud for the moment...

    i often think about NI vs Serato as an microsoft vs apple scenario. Theres a lot of parallels when you think about it. Especially now that NI has all their own controllers for pretty much everything now. It reminds me of how Apple keeps things closed and tends to dump on their third parties whereas Microsoft tends to bend over backwards for their isv's and developers. I guess in this scenario Serato could be played by Microsoft and NI is kind of morphing into a hybrid of apple.

    So heres where my concern lies. Third parties can't be happy about these new NI controllers at all. The s4 announcement must have been like a bomb going off inside the Vestax offices when it happened. Theres no way they can be happy about it or the X1's.

    So my question is, do you think this will influence vendors decisions to make itch controllers? I have a feeling it will. Serato's people (especially their marketting people) arent stupid. I'm sure theyre already making phone calls pointing out things like "hey we'll never compete with you! we want to help foster YOUR business by providing a platform for you to make real profit!"

    I think the next couple of years is going to be really interesting to see what happens. The X1, Maschine, and S4 might be good for the short term for NI. But I can't see how this is anything but suicide as far as maintaining their isv relationships.

    What do you guys think?
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  2. #2
    DJTT Dominator JesC's Avatar
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    the NI hardware that i own is great. X1 and maschine work flawless. I really cant speak for the S4 cuz I have had limited time with it. They really took the know how from the production gear they make and brougth it to the dj side. Now will this hurt 3 party controllers, I dont think so. If anything its going to make them step up their game.
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  3. #3
    Tech Guru xtianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesC View Post
    the NI hardware that i own is great. X1 and maschine work flawless. I really cant speak for the S4 cuz I have had limited time with it. They really took the know how from the production gear they make and brougth it to the dj side. Now will this hurt 3 party controllers, I dont think so. If anything its going to make them step up their game.
    i know were not privy to what goes on behind closed doors. but im sure a few "hey they took our idea before we could make it!" claims going on behind closed doors.

    these are multi million dollar investments were talking about here. honestly, given what ive learned from the business world. If it was my call and i was lets say vestax, numark, amdj, or anyone else. I'd start making itch controllers. at least i wouldnt have to worry about competing with my platform provider.

    lets face it, NI has pretty much killed 3rd party innovation with the s4. yes, the software works with other controllers. but its not like vestax can tell their customers to pirate it to get any of its feature set.

    The smartest thing I think NI can do for their long term books is just sell the s4 software on a model similar to what Serato is doing with the itch platform. Give a set of guidelines to make something "S4 Certified".

    Otherwise, given what Serato offers third parties in the way of an isv relationship, theres just no real incentive for these companies to invest millions into r&d and manufacturing in china to bring traktor controllers to market. They'll always be behind the "out of the box experience" the s4 provides. Don't you think?
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  4. #4
    DJTT Administrator del Ritmo padi_04's Avatar
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    traktor pro is getting the new features, so they don't need to pirate anything. They just need to wait for the update, the same as the rest of TSP user base.

    In fact, Itch had it's doors closed to the rest of the controller market first and they still need their approval to get out of the box integration as they have with controllers such as allen's DX, etc.

    Best scenario would be if they start getting licenses for their products to work with NHL (better resolution), the same as mixers/soundcards to be scratch approved.

    PS: with the amount of versions of Traktor, I think they fit more in the Windows profile...

  5. #5
    DJTT Infectious Moderator photojojo's Avatar
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    No.
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  6. #6
    Tech Mentor Redlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by photojojo View Post
    No.
    couldn't said it better myself.
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  7. #7
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    Isn't Serato the one doing the bundling s***? Last time I checked, you couldn't buy Serato software without buying hardware at the same time. It's like Apple. You want OS X? You gotta buy Apple's overpriced hardware.

    NI, on the other hand, announced that the S4 software features such as the loop recorder and the sample decks will be available in a future iteration of Traktor (Scratch) Pro.

  8. #8
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    Apple hasn't really dumped on third parties that work with Apple products. True, no other company can make hardware such as a computer or phone to run iOS or OSX, but between the iOS App Store and the upcoming Mac App Store, Apple has given a lot of developers a platform to make tons of money. Not to mention other accessories for Apple products such as iPhone/iPad cases.

    Also, there are plenty of software companies that make products that do the same thing as an Apple product, and yet are still successful, because they do in a way that is different and/or better, and that appeals to people. While a lot of people will love the S4, and NI has had no problem selling them, there are still plenty of people who will decide to use something else. I've read several forum posts by people who say they tried the S4 and it wasn't for them, so they're going to stick with their VCI or some other controller.

    All the other controller manufacturers have seen the S4, they know the software features and what will likely be in the next versions of Traktor software, now it's on them to build a controller that is better than the S4.
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  9. #9
    Tech Guru xtianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl View Post
    Apple hasn't really dumped on third parties that work with Apple products. True, no other company can make hardware such as a computer or phone to run iOS or OSX, but between the iOS App Store and the upcoming Mac App Store, Apple has given a lot of developers a platform to make tons of money. Not to mention other accessories for Apple products such as iPhone/iPad cases.

    Also, there are plenty of software companies that make products that do the same thing as an Apple product, and yet are still successful, because they do in a way that is different and/or better, and that appeals to people. While a lot of people will love the S4, and NI has had no problem selling them, there are still plenty of people who will decide to use something else. I've read several forum posts by people who say they tried the S4 and it wasn't for them, so they're going to stick with their VCI or some other controller.
    While I see your points. apple kind of has a history of kicking its third parties in the pants. just a couple of examples off the top of my head are unsanity and adobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by karl View Post
    All the other controller manufacturers have seen the S4, they know the software features and what will likely be in the next versions of Traktor software, now it's on them to build a controller that is better than the S4.
    See this is news to me (as of this thread, TIL something). But the larger point i was hoping people would be more open to discussing rather than getting so defensive is this. lets say you are company a and sell dj controllers. there is 2 real platforms you can market to. serato or NI. Now if you make one for the NI platform, you are competing with NI even though they are your partner. Whereas if you make your controller for Serato, you pay a license fee (btw to get the traktor logo on your controller you have to do the same thing), and Serato markets your device on their site. Since they dont make controllers themselves. They arent competing with you. So as company a, doesnt it make more sense to take the path of least resistance?
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  10. #10
    DJTT Infectious Moderator photojojo's Avatar
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    Serato controllers are built for Serato. Traktor controllers are built for whatever you want to map them to if it's Traktor then great, but it'll also work in Virtual DJ or Ableton or Mixx or whatever else accepts midi that you want to use it with. To think that Vestax or anybody else will stop making controllers for all of the above software so they can stick it to NI because they came out with their own controllers doesn't make any sense to me.
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