Traktor S4 vs Denon DN-MC6000

[RobDeLarge]

well said man, thank you for that answer. You've confused me into wanting the S4 again, haha.

But good to hear other pointers!

Thank you

[djproben]

The Allen and Heath DB4 is definitely the way to go if money isn't an issue. I am pretty sure it will be Traktor Scratch certified in time as well. But if money's an issue and it comes down to S4 vs the 6000, I would go with the denon since the sound card is better and it's an actual mixer if you go computer-less, although you might want to wait and see if it gets traktor certification too.

[TABS]

The DNS3700 are almost 1200 dallas a pop

uh what?..... they are on ebay for $610 each....

[l0rdr0ck]

This is what stopped my purchase of the Mc6000.

It does not have 4 meters for the channels, I
kept debating it, and i really decided I wouldn't even
use it as a hybrid midi mixer without this. Just me.
Look:
http://www.denondj.com/Assets/DImage...DNMC6000_8.jpg

For what its worth the S4 does.

I wouldn't buy either yet. wait for NAMM to pop, i know its hard.

[djproben]

Ouch, you're right! Never noticed that, probably since I never played with one. But it looks like you can switch between channels displayed on the two columns of LEDs, but you're right it would be better to see all four at once. Interesting. Luckily (?) I don't have the $ for either of these now, so I'm waiting till after NAMM too lol... The thing about trade shows is, there will ALWAYS be something better coming down the road if you wait long enough....

[HawZee]

I'm in the exact same position right now. I was going to get the S4 but looks like I'll wait until NAMM is over to see if it is getting some competition.

[V-Hoff]

I would go to the external mixing route...
Always use your club's mixer, bring an Audio Interface with 8 outs (4 stereo) if you play with 4 decks. Then you can use some other cheap and small midi controller to controll what you can't externally. Or you can follow my dream:

My dream setup at home:
Macbook Pro 13''
Traktor Pro
2x iPAD (for transport, effects and everything that the mixer don't do)
M-Audio Firewire 610
DDM4000 (don't use MIDI, just analog setup, and don't use the DDM FXs, cheap and usefull)
Good Average Studio Monitors (KRK Rockit maybe)
Seinnheiser HD25-1 II Headphones

My dream setup at club:
Macbook Pro 13''
Traktor Pro
2x iPAD (for transport, effects and everything that the mixer don't do)
M-Audio Firewire 610
Clubs mixer (or DJM, or A&H, or whatever they use)
Seinnheiser HD25-1 II Headphones

I think this is the most profissional way a Digital DJ can perform with the full capabilities of the Traktor Pro (4 decks, 4 FXs).

My 2 cents

[jishika]

Also the Denon DN-x1600 mixer is really sweet.
around $1000 and very comparable to the DB4. 4in/4out (stereo) audio interface. traktor scratch certified, on board effects processor, full midi surface with extra midi strip, can be used standalone or as midi surface or hybrid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-WFNsOTF6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm-H1ce8rtU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va_3-Zt1OkA

[jishika]

The main advantage of an S4 or MC6000 is that it is compact and portable and "all in one". As great as the DN-S3700s are, they are pretty big to lug around.

It really depends on your style. Do you plan/do club DJ? Most clubs already have mixers and CDJs and many have audio interfaces these days. Another option is to go minimal with just a laptop, traktor, an audio interface like an Audio2DJ and a controller like the Denon DN-SC2000 and use the club mixer (analog mode).

[l0rdr0ck]

I would also recommend pursuing the external route. You will in the long run get more
flexibility as your workflows change.

V-Hoff's idea is intriquing.

This is where my modality has gone to. I use External Traktor mixed through Ableton
with a Hybrid/Midi mixer (a la SmartMixer), a Kontrol X1 and a Denon SC2000. I can apply effects from Traktor, from Ableton or from the Mixer. I use an Ipad using "LiveControl" + TouchOSC" http://liine.net/livecontrol/ and a Launchpad.
The launchpad I use now with Ableton but I used to use the 4 deck TSI mapping before
i got the SC2000, so i could do cue points.

Avoiding a much more involved tech discussion. I KNOW firewire is superior to USB protocol. I can drive the latency down much further via firewire and accrue less CPU overhead.

Some background on this
"For isochronous devices like audio streams, the bandwidth is constant, and reserved exclusively for a given device. The bus bandwidth therefore only has an effect on the number of channels that can be sent at a time, not the "speed" or latency of the transmission."

"A USB network relies on a single host at the top of the tree to control the network. In a FireWire network, any capable node can control the network."

"These and other differences reflect the differing design goals of the two buses: USB was designed for simplicity and low cost, while FireWire was designed for high performance, particularly in time-sensitive applications such as audio and video."

So why do i point this out, well since all my controllers (Launchpad, Kontrol X1, SC2000)are USB, my external harddrive is usb, a USB 2.0 audio interface on this bus would definately choke from my laptop. Since my audio is on a seperate interface i dont worry.

The key to making this all work is actually the Korg Zero 4 mixer.....

The Korg Zero 4 (I have not found anything to replace it and not lose something)
I run it at 24/96 with 256 buffers. I acheieve a 2.5ms one direction. 5.0 ms total in/out from ableton. I have found that about 7 ms is enough for the human ear to hear a skew.
So if i plan to run a plugin/automation heavy live set, i will bump the buffer to 512
that provided me with a 5.3 ms latency totally acceptable. I run it in either
Audio/Midi or pure Midi Mode. Lately more Audio/Midi for the hybrid action, i find sometimes midi mixing controlls just a tick to slow for some tricks and flares.

I then have taken the odd step of Aggregating the audio from the laptop jacks with
the Korg Zero 4. I then take Jackosx and bind it to the new aggregate. This allows me
to create a truly independant monitor that comes out the laptop's heaphone jack. I then take the virtual output of the System Device and route it into live. Thus i can sample Youtube or anything else coming off the mac without cables or losing channels on the physical interface. I can monitor every cue permutation from the laptop
headphone (fulfilling the Smart Cueing concept from DJ TT articles on smartmixing).
It also allows me to record traktor into an Ableton live clip.
Since everything is passed thru ableton in my case i can at any time reroute and have
any channel hit the mixer on any of the inputs 1/2 3/4 5/6 7/8, assign the crossfader on the mixertop and monitor from the mixertop.
Since the Korg Zero 4 has a dedicted strip of midi controls for each channel in Audio/Midi mode i have real EQ on the left (white knobs) and 4 more black knobs (midi) per channel.

PS did i mention timecode works for many vendors from this mixer. I have used Ms. Pinky
and Torq, and we know it is Traktor certified.

Anywayz i think i just made myself crazy to all of you by describing this,

Summary...

I wanted to buy a S4 i decided no, I wanted to buy a MC6000 i decided no, I wanted to
buy a Denon X1600 to replace my Korg, i decided no (i would lose to much and probably not be able to run my rig this way over USB 2.0)

Where am I at now?

I want to buy something, i guess i will just get an Innofader for my Korg.