Pioneer DDJ-T1 - A slap in the face for Traktor users !!!

[lsdave]

if someone is sooo worried about the repetitive use of 1/4" jacks, just look at studio patch panels. They withstand the rigors of constant use. Also look at headphone jacks on mixers. I have yet to plug my phones into a club mixer and the connection be shotty because of the mixer itself.

And if it was STILL that much of an issue just make some male 1/4' to female xlrs and leave them plugged in. problem solved.


also in regards to heat issues, most laptops vent from the rear of the laptop making the statement a non issue.


Aviator man is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

pioneer will do decently well with these based on the fact that they are known for building reliable products...

[fullenglishpint]

OK, the quibbling over if the unit has 1/4" or XLR is pretty funny since no matter what, guess what's coming out of that? MP3's!! Highly compressed audio folks! So, will your audience really notice the difference if your 320 kbps mp3's are coming out of 1/4" or XLR's? Very seriously doubt it. Unless of course, you're buying and playing only 1411 kbps WAV files.

aaaand what proportion of clubs have sound systems that would show the difference between a 320 mp3 and anything better?

[aviatorman]

if someone is sooo worried about the repetitive use of 1/4" jacks, just look at studio patch panels. They withstand the rigors of constant use. Also look at headphone jacks on mixers. I have yet to plug my phones into a club mixer and the connection be shotty because of the mixer itself.

And if it was STILL that much of an issue just make some male 1/4' to female xlrs and leave them plugged in. problem solved.


also in regards to heat issues, most laptops vent from the rear of the laptop making the statement a non issue.


Aviator man is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

pioneer will do decently well with these based on the fact that they are known for building reliable products...

1/4" patch bays are NOT a professional standard; you might be confusing them with TT Bantam patch bays that are far more reliable.
Also, why would you compare a studio environment to a live DJ setup?;
2 completely different worlds...
everybody knows about 1/4" to XLR converters... duhhhh?
That's not the point:

You know what would solve the problem????
I think for dumping $1300 bucks ($1500 w/ accessories) Pioneer should have given users an extra set of outs.
There is my mole hill right there.
BTW, I don't know what laptop you use, but Macs vent from the bottom.

If Pionner claims to know soooooo much about midi controllers, then why do they say: "YOU DON'T NEED TO USE THE KEYBOARD ANY LONGER"
hmmmmmm..... where is the evolution in that ?????

[deevey]

BTW, I don't know what laptop you use, but Macs vent from the bottom.

BTW dunno what kinda Mac you are using? .. the enclosure base is a heatsink and the hot air is vented out the back.

http://www.apple.com/support/macbook/care/

I think for dumping $1300 bucks ($1500 w/ accessories) Pioneer should have given users an extra set of outs.
There is my mole hill right there.

You know what would solve the problem... not buying one!

Now I'm not a Pioneer fan, you can read some of my other posts .. BUT.

The pioneer is probably the closest to perfect controller for the regular Joe Soap wedding/radio/bar/club Jock who doesn't need advanced midi functions, 8 shift layers and sample decks coming out their backside ... the 90% bread and butter of Pioneers market.

For every 500+ capacity banging club venue theres 20 strip joints, biker bars, chart clubs and bars with a set of pioneer CDJ's sitting in them that everyone knows how to use ...... Now i know plenty of jocks who have completely passed over the Digital DJ'ing age, not because of the software, not because they need to buy a laptop, not because of the price.. but quite frankly FEAR of not being familiar with the gear.

They probably hit the nail dead on in the head, keep it simple, keep it familiar, & those using cd's will adapt. Where other manufactures all seem to be trying "a bit of this and a bit of that, ohhh we have to keep those guys happy too". Pioneer Bit the bullet, and brought out a functional controller.

Now when it comes to the XLR's, yeah it cheapens the deal somewhat that they weren't included, possibly just a cost saving effort, possibly a supply issue, possibly just plain stupidity who knows .. considering that with pretty much EVERY controller we're going to have bones to pick, its a pretty small bone... if you don't feel comfortable with your macbook sitting under the unit, get a freakin stand (or just dont buy the pioneer)... All they did was give you the OPTION of doing it that way.

You can have a gripe for EVERY controller thats hit the market so far.

A&H 4D : Jogs aren't big enough
NS7: Doesn't work properly with Traktor.
Denon: Not Traktor Certified, not enough rotaries.
S4: Doesn't have a standalone Mixer

To name a few...

Seriously where is my midi controller with 4 jog wheels 99 encoders 50 faders and 200 buttons all Organized in a fashion that I (and I alone) can understand.

FFS Pioneer/Rane/A&H/Denon/Vestax - get off your ass!

[kooper1980]

BTW dunno what kinda Mac you are using? .. the enclosure base is a heatsink and the hot air is vented out the back.

http://www.apple.com/support/macbook/care/


You know what would solve the problem... not buying one!

Now I'm not a Pioneer fan, you can read some of my other posts .. BUT.

The pioneer is probably the closest to perfect controller for the regular Joe Soap wedding/radio/bar/club Jock who doesn't need advanced midi functions, 8 shift layers and sample decks coming out their backside ... the 90% bread and butter of Pioneers market.

For every 500+ capacity banging club venue theres 20 strip joints, biker bars, chart clubs and bars with a set of pioneer CDJ's sitting in them that everyone knows how to use ...... Now i know plenty of jocks who have completely passed over the Digital DJ'ing age, not because of the software, not because they need to buy a laptop, not because of the price.. but quite frankly FEAR of not being familiar with the gear.

They probably hit the nail dead on in the head, keep it simple, keep it familiar, & those using cd's will adapt. Where other manufactures all seem to be trying "a bit of this and a bit of that, ohhh we have to keep those guys happy too". Pioneer Bit the bullet, and brought out a functional controller.

Now when it comes to the XLR's, yeah it cheapens the deal somewhat that they weren't included, possibly just a cost saving effort, possibly a supply issue, possibly just plain stupidity who knows .. considering that with pretty much EVERY controller we're going to have bones to pick, its a pretty small bone... if you don't feel comfortable with your macbook sitting under the unit, get a freakin stand (or just dont buy the pioneer)... All they did was give you the OPTION of doing it that way.

You can have a gripe for EVERY controller thats hit the market so far.

A&H 4D : Jogs aren't big enough
NS7: Doesn't work properly with Traktor.
Denon: Not Traktor Certified, not enough rotaries.
S4: Doesn't have a standalone Mixer

To name a few...

Seriously where is my midi controller with 4 jog wheels 99 encoders 50 faders and 200 buttons all Organized in a fashion that I (and I alone) can understand.

FFS Pioneer/Rane/A&H/Denon/Vestax - get off your ass!

+1
This just made my day!!!

[aviatorman]

ok- kooper1980, you made a good point about the design simplicity approach by having a dumbed-down midi controller experience for CDJs.
So let-me-get-this-straight... essentially what you're doing is calling CDJs inept and inexperienced creatures that will create a widespread panic when there are surrounded by too many buttons (even with buttons clearly marked with the functions as plain as day! i.e. Native Instruments S4, X1)
No, I don't think think you are just targeting the design integrity of Native Instruments; But what about Reloop, American DJ, Numark, Vestax? Are their controllers too complicated for CDJs too? I can understand FaderFox and Ean Golden's Midi Fighter and certain novation models as being a bit too performance based for DJs, but they are basically add-ons, and that represents the very essence of a true DJ: TURNTABLIST.
Why stop at PAUSE, PLAY and CUE when you can add a few more buttons that could open up CDJs to a whole new user experience: CONTROLLERISM
In that aspect, for $300 more, the pioneer is just touching the tip of the iceberg. You see, the S4 is not trying to scare the unfortunate ones, but for about $800, they are giving you the best of both worlds: a simple DJ user interface coupled with the extremities of controllerism. Thank you NI for setting a benchmark at such a reasonable price! Hey, maybe size does matter!

If I was a wedding or simpleton DJ (strip joints, bars etc.), I would not even need a controller- JUST 2 IPODS (LOL :eek Oh... and if I needed to mix, why should I spend 4X the price [for a controller] if I can get one for about $250 with pitch sliders.

About the Pioneer design- you know, the option of using the stand you were talking about... the T1 is an oversized controller compared to most models (excluding the Numark NS7), and whether or not you use a stand, you will need to have arms the size NBA players to really get comfortable spinning.
AND
Regarding the cooling:
Last time I checked, all laptop cooling systems (fan based too) work off the bottom of the computer. With that said, no matter how you cut it- you will minimize heat loss and airflow to the top and bottom of your laptop; provided the Pioneer unit does not get hot (which I doubt, but we have yet to hear about 10 hour sets and heat buildups) Last time I checked, the big rooms are open all night...

I like the PIONEER. I would use it in a club. The learning curve is a no brainer. My thread merely pointed out some design flaws between 2 models Pioneer decided to launch simultaneously for 2 breeds of computer based dj's (SERATO and TRAKTOR users) Clearly, there are some discriminatory features between the two, and I just want to ring the alarm to the members of this forum.

[deevey]

ok- kooper1980,

It was actually me that made the points.

So let-me-get-this-straight... essentially what you're doing is calling CDJs inept and inexperienced creatures that will create a widespread panic when there are surrounded by too many buttons (even with buttons clearly marked with the functions as plain as day! i.e. Native Instruments S4, X1)

In a nutshell YES! .. you might be surpised at the number of jocks who when confronted with gear they have not used get scared shitless that they are gonna do something stupid, terrible to say but many many many DJ's are dumb creatures who play on what they know ...

Why stop at PAUSE, PLAY and CUE when you can add a few more buttons that could open up CDJs to a whole new user experience: CONTROLLERISM
In that aspect, for $300 more, the pioneer is just touching the tip of the iceberg.

Because the majority of the market don't want to remix on the fly, don't want to have a whole new experience, and don't want to even beatmix ... they want to xfade between 2 tracks on reliable and proven equipment from a respected manufacturer who's interface they have been using for years.

Do you have any idea how many DJ's are in this pot ? I've seen ones that used to throw a fit when they saw a Vestax Deck and not technics, cried when they were told the house CD decks were Numark CDX's .. and downright refused to play until the $2000 Rane Rotary mixer was swapped for a pioneer.

Not all DJ's WANT to learn something new.

They want to play the music feel comfortable and GTFO when they get paid.

a simple DJ user interface coupled with the extremities of controllerism. Thank you NI for setting a benchmark at such a reasonable price! Hey, maybe size does matter!

Its too small, and lacks many controls and features I desire .. its far less from perfect that the Pioneer even (In my opinion of course)

If I was a wedding or simpleton DJ (strip joints, bars etc.), I would not even need a controller- JUST 2 IPODS (LOL ) Oh... and if I needed to mix, why should I spend 4X the price [for a controller] if I can get one for about $250 with pitch sliders.

There is functional and there is comfortable ... if function was the only goal they would not even need a controller just a laptop.

About the Pioneer design- you know, the option of using the stand you were talking about... the T1 is an oversized controller compared to most models (excluding the Numark NS7), and whether or not you use a stand, you will need to have arms the size NBA players to really get comfortable spinning.

Coming from a turntable background, its the PERFECT comfortable size with everything nicely spread out .... and not too easy to hit the "I'm drunk" buttons.

Thank you Numark, thank you pioneer, hopefully we can get more "real" size controllers on the market.

Regarding the cooling:
Last time I checked, all laptop cooling systems (fan based too) work off the bottom of the computer. With that said, no matter how you cut it- you will minimize heat loss and airflow to the top and bottom of your laptop; provided the Pioneer unit does not get hot (which I doubt, but we have yet to hear about 10 hour sets and heat buildups) Last time I checked, the big rooms are open all night...

Yet you specifically quoted your Mac cools from the bottom .. hmmmmm .. if your lappie gets hot, get a fan or get a stand .. They gave you an option which other manufacturers did not. Its not carved in rock that you NEED to put your laptop under there

I like the PIONEER. I would use it in a club. The learning curve is a no brainer. My thread merely pointed out some design flaws between 2 models Pioneer decided to launch simultaneously for 2 breeds of computer based dj's (SERATO and TRAKTOR users) Clearly, there are some discriminatory features between the two, and I just want to ring the alarm to the members of this forum

Some of the flaws you speak of (1/4' jacks for example) are just YOUR personal preferences and does it effect function? , nope, will it effect people using it ? nope ... half the Jocks (yes even on this board) are probably using RCA's or RCA's > XLR or RCA > House mixer > to the main PA half the time anyhow.

They did not launch for 2 Breeds of computer based DJ's IMHO, they launched a product aimed squarely at their current CDJ users as an adaptive step to MAKE them into computer based DJ's. Then went a step further and gave them a choice of software.

I like the Pioneer too, but would probably go with something else (with a standalone mixer built in) and an extensive remap .. but then I'm one of the geeky ones.

[Ghostdad]

Good to see lots of hot debate on this unit. Haven't combed through this whole thread but I look forward to doing so. In the meantime here's our recent demo on the T1. Our buddy Ayres was abled to come up with a four deck routine on a few days with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiMS0OStZnk

Being a turntable guy I don't think he was ready to trade in his decks for it, but he said it was the best thing he had tried that would do the job at a mobile gig where turntables aren't practicle.

[Quenepas]

I have worked in IT for 15 years and for Pioneer to even have the option to put the laptop under the controller it's pretty reckless on their part and while Macbooks have the cooling system for such setup, there are COUNTLESS other laptops ready to BSOD due heating problems. From the video above you can see the laptop more to the left of the unit where precisely sit a lot of the OEM's cooling solutions. As for 1/4 vs XLR I doubt club goers will notice since it's not only dependent on a compressed audio format but also many clubs offer shitty speakers in a shitty layout.

The Pioneer controller is a fine piece of equipment no question but when pitted against something like the S4 built by the same people who developed Traktor then yes, the S4 wins the race. I would have preffered the S4 to be a standalone mixer but maybe it was to keep price down, I dunno...

As for myself while I mostly do EDM jog-wheels aren't used that much but if my interest of scratching arise (I have a spot for old hip hop in my heart) I would get some Technics to timecode with the S4. Upgrade is just $139 and would depend on how cheap I could get the TT's.

[aviatorman]

Its too small, and lacks many controls and features I desire .. its far less from perfect that the Pioneer even (In my opinion of course)

Wow Deevey- you really need to wake up, or maybe you haven't traveled much, but let me reiterate by stressing that the S4's size makes it easier to lug around; be it an airport, a bus or some other mode of congested transportation.
Do you know how bad airport security is? Can the Pioneer survive a baggage check-in. Travel is only getting worse.
It is NOT sized to carry-on standards. Let's face it, it is just not a versatile piece when you're on the move.
You see, NI knows this; they could have opted on a larger controller with more spatially separated buttons, but it would not make traveling simple, and they understand that the new breed of DJs are very sophisticated techies.
Face it, we are talking about Traktor and Serato controllers that run strictly on midi. The new Pioneers might be ok for a mobile setup, but you seem to have a strong embrace on the DJs of the past that get paid a shit load of money to stand around with a D4 record cleaning brush, sip drinks and play 2 hour sets (yeah- in a BIG ROOM...ooooohhhhh...aaahhhhhhh) Wow, what record is he gonna play next? (as everyone salivates in awe on the plexi-glass bumper guards!)
Well ... those days are over. YOU NEED TO WAKE UP!!!
The whole "play my set and GTFO" is lowering the bar by today's standard.
The DJ booth is gonna start looking more and more like an airplane cockpit, and I am a big fan of the whole survival of the fittest ideaology.
The turntable has evolved (did you miss the boat or WHAT!!!!) as a musical instrument with widespread acceptance, so in turn, the DJ is evolving as a controllerist. Look at DAFT PUNK, UNDERWORLD, THE CHEMICAL BROTHERS- are they "performing" or are they just ahead of the controllerist curve. They look like they're DJing by my standards.

I appreciate what Pioneer has done, but if I already owned a club or a bar with 2 Pioneer CDJ-1000s and a decent mixer, why on earth would I upgrade to the new Pioneer controllers. It is the same design... Do you think the mobile "wedding/special occasion" DJs are gonna chuck their old CDJs for this? WAKE UP!

Coming from a turntable background, its the PERFECT comfortable size with everything nicely spread out .... and not too easy to hit the "I'm drunk" buttons.

I come from a turntable background too! My first turntable was a Technics SL-D1 (Direct Drive), and I grew up on the silver platters and have large shoulder muscles from carrying record bags through airports to prove it.
I would take a turntable any day over a controller- trust me. I used to spend hours upon hours hunched over an editing block with a reel-to-reel doing what can now be done in minutes with the technology available today.

Thank you Numark, thank you pioneer, hopefully we can get more "real" size controllers on the market.

"REAL CONTROLLERS?" Where have you been? You claim to know so much about the big clubs, so where are the controllers? I have not seen the Numarks surface in reputable functions. Everyone is still using the Pioneer CDJs, and I cannot see the new Pioneers replacing them- if that's the point you are trying to make. All the pros like to have every piece as a separate. If one controller goes- you replace it with another controller without killing the setup. So much said of the new Pioneer models. The S4 also suffers the same fate, but I can get 2 S4s for the price of one Pioneer Serato controller.

Yet you specifically quoted your Mac cools from the bottom .. hmmmmm .. if your lappie gets hot, get a fan or get a stand .. They gave you an option which other manufacturers did not. Its not carved in rock that you NEED to put your laptop under there

WAKE UP AGAIN! Get over the design and the whole heat sink thingy. Laptops were not designed for DJs! I am sure as hell confident that if you showed a computer laptop engineer the Pioneer (slide-under) design, they would go back to the drawing board and remodel the entire venting system. Yeah- I know it is OPTIONAL, but did you see how far you gotta reach out to hit a key with a laptop stand. I do not like to have my laptop hover over my controls- the Pioneer is a just a tad too wide. In this case, the S4 wins optimally.

Some of the flaws you speak of (1/4' jacks for example) are just YOUR personal preferences and does it effect function? , nope, will it effect people using it ? nope ... half the Jocks (yes even on this board) are probably using RCA's or RCA's > XLR or RCA > House mixer > to the main PA half the time anyhow.

WOW- you still don't get it!
Get any piece of hardware or professional grade signal processor. It is NOT about sound quality! It is about the reliability of your connection that can stand the test of mishaps and clutter. You can pour water over an XLR connection.
You will break the hardware before you break the connection. That is what I call a reliable connection. Why should I have to see the S1 have XLRs, but not the T1. THAT IS A SLAP IN THE FACE FOR TRAKTOR USERS!!!
Have you ever heard the frightening pops and crackling noises on a large system come out of 1/4" or RCA plugs that are wobblily or insecure????? You better have the limiters set up, or it will be a very short gig.

DJing hip-hop always relied on a greater skill level than dance music. Just look at any old DMC battle footage. The dance DJ could not step up their game with CDJs, but the controller market is finally opening new doors for all dance DJs. And guess what? The hip-hop DJs are embracing controllerism and also taking it to the next level too!
I don't give a S**T who you think you are, but in the end, YOU ARE GETTING PAID TO PERFORM. So put on a performance. Stop preaching about how most DJs are too stupid and lazy to actually perform.
"PLAY AND GTFO"
"PLAY AND GTFO"
"PLAY AND GTFO"
"PLAY AND GTFO"
"PLAY AND GTFO"
I AM A DJ !
I AM A DJ !
I AM A DJ !
"PLAY AND GTFO"
"PLAY AND GTFO"
"PLAY AND GTFO"

Thanks to test pressings and drugs, we have had it easy for years. It is finally time to PUT ON A SHOW.
I am sick in the stomach by watching these glam-skinny DJs who get noticed for their looks and not their skills for all those she-she gigs that pay well. I MEAN WELL!
"Hey you got the look- wanna play at my party honey?"


The PIONEER is NOT a game changer. It simply symbolizes what we're used to and familiar with in the DJ booth. But what about the 1200's and the CDJs? I am not gonna abandon them for these 2 pieces of expensive plastic.

The S4 is a game changer. (size and function)
The Novation Dice is a game changer
The NI X1 is a game changer
The Korg Kaoss Pad is a game changer
The Vestax VCI 100 is a game changer
The MIDI FIGHTER is a game changer

Go ahead and carry that faint torch and just admit that boring and dull will continue to pay the bills and symbolize the public's association with DJs.
Yeah, I know most DJs suck, but I really don't need to be reminded on an epidemic that is now a standard for crap.
I, on the other hand, will continue to move forward in the hopes of being remembered for what I strive to achieve while I have your ears locked-down to a vibe for a few hours.