Does Size Matter - Poll

[deevey]

I see alot of Jocks complaining about the Size / Weight of some of the Controllers on the Market, and began wondering "for how many is size or weight really an issue ?" ..

Coming from a Vinyl Background I got used to Lugging a Coffin case with 2 Decks a Mixer and about 25kg's of Vinyl out with me twice a week to one of my residencies (where they only had an old denon2000f!) .. and of course at least one Crate of Records if the club had an installed system.

Personally I don't want to deal with small jog wheels, tiny pitch faders, soft-takeovers ... I want that comfort and open spacing of turntables in a controller.

Numark answered to a point one of my prayers with the NS7 ..obviously there's now theres a few real options for me which are not such heavy weights.

• Pioneers
• Numark
• EKS Otus

And ones I'd like the features and layout of but on a slightly larger controller

• Denon MC6000
• American Audio VMS4
• Reloop DJ3
• S4

Like I said, I see so many negative comments about the size of these units and the "I can't throw that in a backpack" brigade it really blows me away and just wondered.

So ... does size / weight matter and why ?

I was going to add a poll but you only have 5 mins to create it .... Admin extra time please!!!

[theory28]

it matters if you plan on scratching. and then you also need touch sensetivity.

out of all of those the ns7 probably gives the best feel (truth be told i havnt used vynal, but the ns7 gave good feedback when i tried it out)

[deevey]

I'm not a scratcher either, but was a vinyl jock for 10 years. IMHO a button doesn't come close to vinyl for cueing...i'm not talking accuracy which is arguably better on a button...but the feeling.

Yeah the Ns7 is almost Ideal, few more buttons and endless encoders and it would be.

Surely there must be some method of creating a "reasonably" High torque, low profile motor that doesn't weigh a ton at this stage?...even if it were 3/4 the torque of a 1210 on a controller it'd be nice .

DJ'ing should feel good, feel comfortable, give that warm fuzzy sensation .... not compromised because "its the best solution there is for now".

[tekki]

Like I said, I see so many negative comments about the size of these units and the "I can't throw that in a backpack" brigade it really blows me away and just wondered.

So ... does size / weight matter and why ?

If you likethe controller, you wont mind the size and weight, or take it for granted.

People that whine about the size and weight usually don't like the product to begin with.

I was going to add a poll but you only have 5 mins to create it .... Admin extra time please!!!

Will see what I can do you for.

[itskindahot]

From the title, I thought this thread was about something else. And there's no poll, either. Double disappointment.

[mostapha]

People that whine about the size and weight usually don't like the product to begin with.

Agreed. But, that's the whole point.

I'm with the OP 100%; I like the features and the description of controllers like the VCI-100, S4, and xone:dx…but I can't deal with them being so damn small.

No matter how well built they are or how well thought out the controls are, they feel like toys to me. I made my peace with using X1s in place of decks, but a slightly larger controller came out with as good of a control layout for what I want, I'd drop them in a heartbeat…literally a CDJ-1000-sized X1 with a platter in the right place would be ideal…maybe replace 4 of the knobs at the top with endless rotaries to better make use of modifiers and the new sample dekcs…the EKS stuff is really close, but I'm not paying that much for a controller that needs modifiers and button groups and was designed by someone who appears to have never looked at the interfaces for SSL or Traktor Pro.

As for mixer sections…none of them really feel like a real mixer. The dx is close, and I don't really have specific complaints about the other high-end controllers except that they still feel like controllers. That's fine for some, and I'm sure I could perform on many of them just as well…but I wouldn't enjoy it as much. Plus, I like pointlessly debating Empath Rotary vs. xone:92R vs. DJR-400 vs. PMC-55 with myself. IMHO, you can't do that with controllers…you find the one that has the controls you think you'd need (which would be the S4 or the xone:dx for me…don't really care which) and just pick one. But, that's probably my bias showing through.

(please note: this argument doesn't count for Ableton Live controllers…people use it so differently, you deal with what you can get.)

[haze324]

I think size only matters for portability. I have an S4 and an NS7. I love the feel of the NS7 and the platters, even if Itch is limited in comparison to Traktor. I like the S4 because its more mobile and is feature rich....and to top it off, I REALLY like the X1. I can use just that. Those to me are the three extremes of size for controllers, and as much as love the NS7 there are some days I want to play and not have to carry something that big.

[mostapha]

…ns7…s4…x1………and as much as love the NS7 there are some days I want to play and not have to carry something that big.

Yeah…I've just given up caring. My guitar rig takes more space than my DJ gear, and I still carry that around. A pair of X1s and a real mixer fits in 1 bag, just not a backpack. If I decide I need something 'portable' for more impromptu stuff, I'll leave whichever is cheapest between a vci-100mk2, a vestax spin, or a reloop jockey 2/3 in my car. Since I don't even know what they cost, I obviously don't care that much. If they end up costing more than $300 at the absolute top end, I'd just get something cheaper. Unless something changes…for me and for what I want, no all-in-one controller is worth more than $300…not even the S4 or he new pio stuff…and I was excited about the xone:dx from when it was announced until the day I actually got to touch one.

Yeah the Ns7 is almost Ideal, few more buttons and endless encoders and it would be.

Surely there must be some method of creating a "reasonably" High torque, low profile motor that doesn't weigh a ton at this stage?...even if it were 3/4 the torque of a 1210 on a controller it'd be nice .

I'm almost with you, but I hate its mixer…and I think it needs several more controls. My ideal for a deck would be a platter, 16 buttons arranged the way they are on the X1, a pitch fader, and 4 endless rotaries in the main section, with another section above it with 8 knobs (without center detents) and 4 buttons to control a sample deck, plus 4 knobs (with center detents) and 4 buttons to control an effects box…and it would work with traktor…but I hate modifiers, pages, and shifted functions. If they were about CDJ-1000-sized or a bit taller, I'd happily pay $500 to $750 each for two of those and then worry about a mixer…I'd pay more if they each had a good quality sound card and 2 stereo pairs out and could be used reliably as an aggregate audio device with Traktor Pro on OS X without drivers.

In more reasonable terms, check out the Stanton SCS.1d:

It's pretty close…it just uses too many pages and modifiers for my taste.

Nothing like I want currently exists, and using 1 X1 per deck is 90% there. If it ends up that nothing better comes out and I have to buy an LPD8 or two to control the sample decks, so be it. It'll be annoying, but not as annoying as using something that feels like a $1000 toy.

[Coldfuzion]

I think the reason that "size matters" to a lot of people is because they are traveling DJs. If you're just going to your residency and then back home, sure carrying around vinyls and like the 1200s is no big deal, but if you're traveling around the world or even across states then carrying around that shit is no fun.

[jimbob5000]

I don't care about the big all-in-one controllers. If I want the feel and space of vinyl, I use vinyl, aka timecode. For the button pressing stuff, I usually have a faderfox DX2 with me. This combo is really nice for someone like me who still likes to use a turntable.

Some people here wrote that they still haven't found a controller that's exactly what they want, and I feel the same way. I love the Faderfox concept, which is kind of modular. A separate controller for the mixer section, one that is focused on transport, one that is focused more on the FX side of things. Carry and hook up what you want for any given night. On the downside, they're tiny and while that's often useful, it's not that great all the time. Also, without illumination, they can be hard to use. Get me something like a Faderfox XL series, a little bit bigger and with illuminated buttons, and I'm there. Compact when I want it, full-fledged button and fader overkill when I want that. And always flexible enough to be set up in tiny DJ booths. Alternatively, the NI X1 needs some brothers and sisters, like an M1 (mixer section), an FX1 (FX :-)) etc.

Controller-wise, I went through a few already. Never liked the VCI-style ones for some reason, they just don't seem to, well, know what they really want to be. Jogs and a tiny pitch fader on a button-centric controller - I mean, why? Ditched a Numark Total control because of that (it also was pretty crappy).

I had an Otus, and at first I loved it. I still kinda like it, but to be honest, especially the huge jog wheel could not fulfill my expectations. They just can't give you vinyl feeling, and if they can't, why bother about them? Take away the wheel, and you have something resonably sized and portable with plenty of buttons and encoders. For less money.

I used a Radius 1000 as a controller. Still have it, and it came closer to what I wanted, but in the end, It's a CD-focused device with extra midi, and you can tell.

I took a very quick look at the S4 and the Denon MC6000 at a music store, and both sure seemed nice, but I personally don't like the fact that controllers of that type are one relatively big chunk of hardware that's hard to find space for in DJ booths.

I like controllers like the V7, and I still don't understand why pioneer went for an all-in-one solution for their debut in the controller market instead of doing some kind of CDJ900-like controller, maybe develop a new version of their four channel mixers with a sophisticated midi implementation. Would have been the logical step in my opinion.

This weekend I have my regular bar gig, and I usually brought two turntables, my Macbook, Soundcard, Faderfox etc. with me. Unbelievable squeeze and a hassle to set up. This time I'll just leave the turntables at home and give my new DN-SC 2000 a proper test run. Don't feel like carrying all the other stuff this time. Let's see how it will work out. Less can be more, you know.

(Sorry for the lengthy story of my life here, I just can't write anything short ).