The reason WHY A&H sounds warmer than Pioneer - Page 13
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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reticuli View Post
    I remember on Traktor 2 Pro when I was testing most of the DJ software out there that the key lock algorithm wasn't actually turning off completely at the time. Once you triggered it, it mangled the impulse response to hell and then deactivating it wouldn't actually resolve that until the program was rebooted. They fixed that and some other issue I informed them about concerning pitch bending. I was quite impressed with the 16bit VDJ 7's processing. Very clean and precise. There's something to be said with not oversampling, doing lots of interpolation, and then dithering the hell out of it at the end. I know they've moved to 32bit now and their key correction seems wildly improved in 7.4 and 8. Torq 2 was appalling. I don't know what the hell was going on with that DSP coding of theirs. The basic specs it produces weren't too bad, but it couldn't deal with a lot of test waveforms. I think its impulse response was practically non-existent and like inverted or something. Sounds real dark, crunchy, and processed, too. Has an unmistakable signature it gives everything. The old pre-Pro (not sure if that's what it was called) 2 channel version of Traktor had very pleasant sound and good tests.
    "Testing"
    "clean and precise processing"
    "seems wildly improved"
    "i think its impulse response"
    "dark cruncy and processed"
    "umistakable signature"
    "very pleasant sound and good tests"

    Placebos and confirmation bias masquerading as objective reality.

  2. #122
    Tech Guru the_bastet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImNoDJ View Post
    lmfao! OMG!
    - Equipment - Audio Technica ATLP1240's, Allen & Heath DB4, RekordBoxDJ
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  3. #123
    Tech Wizard pacific808's Avatar
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    You would be amazed on how many people have been convinced into buying gold plated optical cables because gold is a better conductor...

  4. #124
    Tech Guru the_bastet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacific808 View Post
    You would be amazed on how many people have been convinced into buying gold plated optical cables because gold is a better conductor...
    Lol. If only they knew science. Copper is a better conductor. Silver is better than both, but is way too brittle to be reliable.
    - Equipment - Audio Technica ATLP1240's, Allen & Heath DB4, RekordBoxDJ
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  5. #125
    Tech Wizard pacific808's Avatar
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    But for an "optical cable"

  6. #126
    Tech Guru the_bastet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacific808 View Post
    But for an "optical cable"
    Lol. Took me a minute. My mind went straight to SPFIF
    - Equipment - Audio Technica ATLP1240's, Allen & Heath DB4, RekordBoxDJ
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  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImNoDJ View Post
    In audio testing it really is. This has been proven experimentally time and time again. The entire audiophile market of pointless products also proves this.
    In science, non-blinded data gathering and testing is not useless. In electronics repair, non-blinded testing is not useless. In quality assurance, non-blinded testing is not useless. In the development of new products, like codecs, non-blinded testing is not useless. There was the case of, I think it was one of the big European broadcast standards groups, where they did blinded testing with a great many people who heard nothing wrong with the output of a new codec. Test subjects did not know which was the test track and which was the original. It took a single golden ears outside engineer later who knew it was a test track to hear there was a spurious tone that a glitch in the codec had embedded, which was then confirmed with actual measurements. Useless non-blinded observation? Confirmation bias in observation and later measurement? Lack of utility? Hogwash. The codec was improved as a result. That's as empirical as you can get. The blind tests using random test subjects were showing one thing: that the average listener was a poor critical listener. There is certainly a hierarchy of power in science with blinded data gathering and testing above non-blinded, because bias and preconceptions in a variety of ways can influence results, knowingly or unknowingly. But that does not mean some Doctor Without Borders physician running a rapid TB test out in the boonies in Africa doesn't find utility in the test because he runs it on someone who's showing outward symptoms of TB. Pardon the pun, bro, but get real.

  8. #128
    Tech Guru djproben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacific808 View Post
    I recently hooked up my DJM-900NXS2 to ableton and ran some pink noise through it and observed the isolator work in a RTA graph and made a virtual NXS2 isolator EQ rack. From my expirience the NXS2 is quite a bit warmer than the old NXS. I have heard the analog A&H mixers are still wamer but I have never had the opurtunity to try one out.
    Can you give more information about what this actually does? Is this roughly like Traktor's various EQ settings, which emulate various mixers?
    "Art is what you can get away with." - Marshall McLuhan

  9. #129
    Tech Wizard pacific808's Avatar
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    Basically what I was doing was using a technique sound engineers use to tune EQs for rooms and venues to help create a flat frequency response. I used a pink noise generator in ableton feeding two tracks and routed it directly into my NXS2 and used an iPad pro with a lightning connection to feed a real time analysis tool. The first track was a dry signal routed to the A side of my NXS2 and I had my B side with the same signal but with a 3 band EQ on it. I would use the NXS2 EQ to alter the dry signal on the A side and then recreate the crossover points and slope in ableton to match the NXS2 and then I could A/B to see and hear any difference. From my measurements I found the Low ISO to be around 290Hz and the High ISO to be around 4.8kHz. The slope appears to be 24db/oct.


  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reticuli View Post
    In science, non-blinded data gathering and testing is not useless. In electronics repair, non-blinded testing is not useless. In quality assurance, non-blinded testing is not useless. In the development of new products, like codecs, non-blinded testing is not useless. There was the case of, I think it was one of the big European broadcast standards groups, where they did blinded testing with a great many people who heard nothing wrong with the output of a new codec. Test subjects did not know which was the test track and which was the original. It took a single golden ears outside engineer later who knew it was a test track to hear there was a spurious tone that a glitch in the codec had embedded, which was then confirmed with actual measurements. Useless non-blinded observation? Confirmation bias in observation and later measurement? Lack of utility? Hogwash. The codec was improved as a result. That's as empirical as you can get. The blind tests using random test subjects were showing one thing: that the average listener was a poor critical listener. There is certainly a hierarchy of power in science with blinded data gathering and testing above non-blinded, because bias and preconceptions in a variety of ways can influence results, knowingly or unknowingly. But that does not mean some Doctor Without Borders physician running a rapid TB test out in the boonies in Africa doesn't find utility in the test because he runs it on someone who's showing outward symptoms of TB. Pardon the pun, bro, but get real.
    Yeah, literally none of that is relevant to my comment.

    I specifically said that in AUDIO testing, non blind tests are worthless. I didnt make any comment about science in general.

    Its as worthless as eyewitness testimony, which is wrong as often as it is right for the same reasons. Human construct sensory data with their brains. You are not hearing a true representation of reality. Unless you have a reference that shows that people with golden ears are not subject to confirmation bias or placebo, then Im going to go with the decades of journal articles rather than your opinion.

    Not quite sure why youve gone on about Tuberculosis.

    Got a reference for your codec story?

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