Recommend a good mastering service?

[Whyte]

I get my tracks mastered by a dutch engineer (with decent hardware and a proper studio) from www.seriousmastering.com. Really good stuff, but not the cheapest.

[sobi]

Lots of SAE grads with cracked waves plugins calling themselves "Mastering Engineers" now.

Irrelevant if they are offering high quality product/service at a great price.

[sardu]

here is a great read if your interested in mastering:
http://www.chicagomasteringservice.com/loudness.html

[Frank112916]

If you're not recording why do you need to send your tracks out to get mastered. The way I see it if everything is done inside the box than your output should be as good as your input. You don't need EQing if you EQ properly during mixdown, you don't need to normalize if you normalize during mixdown, you don't need compression if you run a compression algorithm during mixdown. If you are recording vocals - ok, yeah, perhaps, but if you're not recording anything live than you should be able to perfectly master your one track and even multiple tracks during the mixdown.

The entire idea behind mastering a track or an album is that you would be recording artists where you couldn't control for every single variable and after hearing the same song/s over and over your ears would be shit and you couldn't possibly hear the nuance of the tracks to be able to master them properly. When you mix and create tracks in the box you control EVERY SINGLE VARIABLE of the track, literally. You know the sound of each high hat, tom, kick, snare, clap, and synth. You can control for velocity, level, and overall sound of every single beat and rhythm. There is nothing you can't change.

Unless the guy mastering your track is actually getting the entire software project unmixed you're just doing yourself a disservice since the mastering engineer has to tweak each sounds with much less precision than you ever could in your own DAW. Instead of reducing actual velocity he has to reduce a level or target a frequency which fucks with the rest of the track at that point. Why would you pay for LESS precision? Seems like a fools game to me. Letting other people listen to your track, listening to it in different environments, etc... is money (none) and time (a bit more than if you get it mastered) well saved and spent respectively.

I say this as someone who isn't a producer - so take it with a grain of salt - but I do understand the idea behind mastering and why tracks are mastered. I also know what you can do in a DAW so with that in mind I just don't see why anyone using midi and samples would need to master.

[biru]

If you're not recording why do you need to send your tracks out to get mastered.

*flexes fingers for a Sunday morning line-by-line reply*
(Also, in your opening statement you ask a question (which even if it's rhetorical) should conclude with a question mark.)

The way I see it if everything is done inside the box than your output should be as good as your input.

Well your input is your box and Ableton is crap at summing tracks, plugins never sound as good as a nice piece of hardware kit, especially valve based when you want to saturate the low and and buff out that digital sounding dirt. Unless you want bit crusher effect, then that's cool.

You don't need EQing if you EQ properly during mixdown, you don't need to normalize if you normalize during mixdown, you don't need compression if you run a compression algorithm during mixdown.

Except that a proper mastering engineer has PROPER compressors, PROPER EQs and a calibrated monitoring system in an acoustically treated room. Whilst your ears may be finely honed to getting the best clap sound or wobbliest dubstep bass, the mastering engineer has ears that are finely honed to maintain dynamic range whilst ensuring that your final output mix will sit neatly alongside any other commercial product.

Not to mention the custom tools that proper mastering engineers have.

If you are recording vocals - ok, yeah, perhaps, but if you're not recording anything live than you should be able to perfectly master your one track and even multiple tracks during the mixdown.

Vocals vs instrumentals = bullshit. Anything can be affected by mastering. I have engineered and mixed jazz, pop, orchestras in 5.1, electronica, radio shows, audio plays and all final mixes have been improved by a bit of judicious application of EQ and multiband compression across the final product.

The entire idea behind mastering a track or an album is that you would be recording artists where you couldn't control for every single variable and after hearing the same song/s over and over your ears would be shit and you couldn't possibly hear the nuance of the tracks to be able to master them properly.

Not true. The original idea behind mastering was to ensure that the product from the studio would work on the physical format. For example, vinyl requires a full cut low pass at about 60hz, no peaks over 0dB, no obscene phase warping because otherwise the grooves in the record would overlap into each other. For digital audio (eg CD) google "nyquist" and look for "bit rate vs dynamic range".

Mastering is a SCIENCE and an ART. It requires a technical understanding of sound, signal processing and acoustics AS WELL AS a musical ear.

When you mix and create tracks in the box you control EVERY SINGLE VARIABLE of the track, literally. You know the sound of each high hat, tom, kick, snare, clap, and synth. You can control for velocity, level, and overall sound of every single beat and rhythm. There is nothing you can't change.

Yep. Right. And the mastering engineer can't fix a crappy mix. If your clap is lost to the kick drum and your vocals are lost under a washy pad you are stuffed.

What the mastering engineer CAN do is make sure that when the club or radio signal chain gets a hold of your tune, the difference between the loudest and softest parts won't cause their compressor to suck and blow. He CAN ensure (to some extent) that DJs won't be turning up the gain during their mix in and then suddenly have to wind it down -12db after the drop. He CAN listen critically to the low end and then slightly attenuate the bass (which results from you putting too much bottom end in as you are mixing on your dad's old hifi speakers from the 70s which honestly are shit old ≠ vintage and vintage ≠ good) without losing the energy from your track.

Unless the guy mastering your track is actually getting the entire software project unmixed you're just doing yourself a disservice since the mastering engineer has to tweak each sounds with much less precision than you ever could in your own DAW.

Yeah cos he's a MASTERING engineer not a MIX engineer. Duh.

Instead of reducing actual velocity he has to reduce a level or target a frequency which fucks with the rest of the track at that point. Why would you pay for LESS precision? Seems like a fools game to me. Letting other people listen to your track, listening to it in different environments, etc... is money (none) and time (a bit more than if you get it mastered) well saved and spent respectively.

Velocity is a MIDI data value between 0 & 127. It has no sonic property. Frequency and level are properties of actual sound. The part I have underlined is part of the MIX process, different from mastering.

I say this as someone who isn't a producer - so take it with a grain of salt - but I do understand the idea behind mastering and why tracks are mastered. I also know what you can do in a DAW so with that in mind I just don't see why anyone using midi and samples would need to master.

You don't have any idea what mastering is at all. None. At. All.

Mastering is the framer, presenting your painted masterpiece in the best possible way. It is the detailer, buffing up your restored auto masterpiece. It is sommelier, accenting your delicious creating with a suitable vintage. It is the proofing colorist who makes the amazing art from your computer screen translate fully into a four-colour process on a medium-gloss 140gsm card stock.

The mastering engineer is the guy with the ears and the gear who massages your amazing creation into something that makes you go "HOLY CRAP! I CAN'T BELIEVE I WROTE THAT!".

I'm secure enough to know that when I want my tunes to fly out of the speakers, make women wet, men hard and get everyone to throw their hands in the fucking air (after I've spent weeks fine-tuning automation by 0.1dB and altering side-chain attacks and releases by 1ms) I send them to a professional to have the final polish.

Honestly, anyone who has had their stuff properly mastered, will tell you HOW much better it sounds. And it IS worth the money.

I spend my days teaching music, music technology, living it, breathing it, which is WHY I'm so passionate about making sure people have their facts straight. The number of times I've had students come up to me and carry on with some crap they got off the internet that turns out to be flat out wrong REALLY astounds me. Then I have to nod my head for 5 minutes and come out with a subtle way to say "Actually, that's entire crap and here's why" without crushing a teenager's ego and making them feel like an idiot.

[DigitalDevil]

I was pretty much just going to say "Yeah, well, you're wrong," but I think your post handled it much better.

[biru]

I was pretty much just going to say "Yeah, well, you're wrong," but I think your post handled it much better.

I hope it doesn't come across as grumpy old bastard tone. I say everything with love.

[josh@firestorm]

there's a bit of discussion over on the ableton.com forums about mastering services and such.

if you want to have a crack at doing it yourself, Tarekith on the ableton forums has some good guides on his site (either google him, or check out his sig on the ableton forum).

[Ross]

Heathmonds... Transition... Valve... One of them places.

I hope someone gets that reference...

[DigitalDevil]

there's a bit of discussion over on the ableton.com forums about mastering services and such.

if you want to have a crack at doing it yourself, Tarekith on the ableton forums has some good guides on his site (either google him, or check out his sig on the ableton forum).

Thanks for the heads up, Tarekith has written some pretty good stuff.