Experimental "Post Hardstyle" Tune
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  1. #1
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    Default Experimental "Post Hardstyle" Tune

    Here's a track i've just finished, I've tried to keep it very chilled out whilst encorportaing a Hardstyle kick-drum. Let me know if I've succeeded.

    Last edited by Max Jones; 08-18-2011 at 01:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    Just when I thought genre names couldn't get any more ridiculously stupid, heh?

    Seriously, this isn't "post hardstyle". Hardstyle has been around for 10 years and you just decided to make a kickdrum that sorta vaguely sounds like a hardstyle kickdrum in the middle of an otherwise typical IDM track. That doesn't make it "post-IDM" either.. just IDM.

    To me, "post-[genre]" suggests that whatever is being created goes beyond the genre somehow. Just using a hardstyle kickdrum in an otherwise completely non hardstyle track is unlikely to render your track a new genre called "post hardstyle" in my personal opinion. YMMV.

    That said, here's some commentary on the actual music.

    - your mixes still sound way bright/crunchy/busy to me in the high end. have you ever seen the star trek episode where one of the characters keeps hearing semi-random high pitched alien noises? every track of yours I listen to makes me feel like I am in that episode.

    - 2 minutes of ambient intro? If I were not listening for DJTT, I would have turned this off already. And then another minute and a half of mostly-beatless intro. I read the subject, I see "post-hardstyle" and it takes 3:15 before I hear a bassdrum? Confused. I guess the part where it isn't actually anything like hardstyle is what makes it "post-"? But then why try to relate it to hardstyle in the first place?

    - I like some of the programming when you come in with the heavy bassdrum. But then it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Then the bassdrum basically disappears and there's two more "verses" of meandering plinkety plonkety blippity bloop which also go nowhere over the course of about 3 minutes.

    - In summary, I feel like this song has a good amount of promise, but currently do not care for it at all. If you turned the current 7 minutes of blipping and swooshing about into about 4 minutes with a little more structure, I think you would have a much better track.
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  3. #3
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    The genre name was an in-joke between me and the people who know me. Besides, the "post" prefix to a genre means to use sounds or instruments from that genre to make music that is not itself that genre. Post Rock uses Rock guitars and drums to make music that is not rock, so in-fact, why can't my use of a Hardstyle kick make this song a "post Hardstyle" song? It started as a joke but now I think i'll coin the name, just to piss you off, and in years to come the name Max Jones will be synonymous with post Hardstyle. If you are so bothered about the state of genre names why even pay attention to them? I don't...

    Let me take this time to have an !!!?!?!AWETHOMARRR!?!?! Moment and give you some feedback on your feedback, in bullet-point form. I made this feedback whilst doing nothing constructive with my day.

    -There are ways of saying things that make people better and there are ways of making yourself sound like a nob and nobody wins. When you use similies to compare listening to my music and something unpleasant, I feel sad. Please stop.

    -You seem like a very structured human being, but whilst making music is one of the only times in our life where we can let go and truely express ourselves in ANY way we see fit? (< obnoxious question mark). Structure then, in my opinion, should come second to how the creator feels is the best way of expressing himself. I produced a long intro because that's what I felt like doing. It wasn't an accident, maybe it was self indulgent but I don't care, and when listening to my tracks in the future, bear in mind that I never care.

    - Do you like ANYTHING? I've seen you slating people who make music left right and centre but i've never heard anything you've made yourself. At the moment all i've got to go on when it comes to your good self is this vivid mental image of a sad man with his trousers too tight around the package and a wee tear in his eye. The man seems angry but at who, nobody knows. Not even him. If I could hear or see something original that you feel proud of and that you have put a little bit of yourself in to, maybe you'd grow some sweat-pants and eat a bit of pudding and then the world would be alright again with that little man in my head. Hmm?

    - To summarise, I appreciate all feedback, I really do, and I appreciate the time you've put aside and that you managed to listen to my whole track... But for some reason, mate, you really rub me up the wrong way with your flipping bullet-point mentality.

    Max.
    Last edited by Max Jones; 08-17-2011 at 03:37 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Jones View Post
    The genre name was an in-joke between me and the people who know me ... the "post" prefix to a genre means to use sounds or instruments from that genre to make music that is not itself that genre .... if you are so bothered about the state of genre names why even pay attention to them? I don't...
    So if I've got you properly... the joke is what I said it is?

    You were trolling with the genre name, I made the mistake of taking your trolling seriously, and therefore your trolling had exactly the intended response. But somehow this shows that I care about genre names and you don't. OOOOK...

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power, the name you love to touch View Post
    Let me take this time to have an !!!?!?!AWETHOMARRR!?!?! Moment and give you some feedback on your feedback, in bullet-point form. I made this feedback whilst doing nothing constructive with my day.
    You sure seem to know a lot about me from... reading a few slightly critical comments I have made on your music on an internet forum. It's strange that you took things to this personal level when every thing I've said to you so far has been about your music.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximum Homerdrive View Post
    -There are ways of saying things that make people better and there are ways of making yourself sound like a nob and nobody wins. When you use similies to compare listening to my music and something unpleasant, I feel sad. Please stop.
    Yep, I do believe that your fragile ego has a problem hearing negative feedback regarding your music. That much seems pretty clear at this point.

    If you "feel sad" when people criticize your music, you might want to give up making music, or at least letting other people hear it. Because if you ever become popular there's going to be actual haters actually hating on you, and what they will say will stand in stark contrast to the statements of well-meaning if slightly snarky guys on forums.

    I used the reference to the Star Trek episode to try to get across in symbolic language that what you might hear as "interesting complexity," someone (who is in fact a huge fan of "interesting complexity" in music!) instead hears as IRRITATING SEMI RANDOM NOISE. I felt like maybe you might be interested in applying that feedback in the aim of creating something that sounds less like irritating semi random noise and more like the interestingly complex clicks and bleeps you seem to be going for. But apparently not!

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Insecurity View Post
    Structure then, in my opinion, should come second to how the creator feels is the best way of expressing himself. I produced a long intro because that's what I felt like doing. It wasn't an accident, maybe it was self indulgent but I don't care, and when listening to my tracks in the future, bear in mind that I never care.
    If you don't care, why are you posting your work here and asking other musicians for feedback? You're not asking the general public, like for example when you post a track to soundcloud. You're asking other musicians. The general soundcloud public will in fact give you either NO feedback or POSITIVE feedback, but will almost never give NEGATIVE feedback.

    Many artists, when asking other artists for critique, would honestly prefer somewhat negative critique to NO feedback. You apparently do not. If you don't want my feedback, rest assured that I'll be glad to never have listen to your music again. Happy to help, have a nice day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximum Conjecture View Post
    - Do you like ANYTHING? I've seen you slating people who make music left right and centre but i've never heard anything you've made yourself.
    The name of the site is *DJ*Techtools.com. Not *Producer*Techtools.com. I could never produce a single original track and it would be perfectly appropriate for me to comment on your productions when you post them here. When I *do* post my music here and someone criticizes it, I'm pretty sure I won't whine at them and invent a fantasy world where they are a dismissable caricature..

    If you want to actually inform your opinion of my critique style, you should click on my profile and go read my posts. You'll see that while I usually have a few pieces of critical feedback about a given track or mix, I make a concerted effort to qualify my statements as ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINON AND TASTE.

    I also make a sincere effort to point out any positive things I noticed, like for example when I pointed out the brief section of this song that I found appealing. When I like something (like recent posts by zimfalla, hey!zeus, ab420 or audiotransmitteddisease, off the top of my head..) I say so.

    Your attempt to turn your defensive emotional reaction to my critique into some narrative where I am negative about everything fails. Go read what self-confident artists say in response to my critiques if you are still confused as to who is failing.
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  5. #5
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    Thumbs up

    I must say that it is personally a highlight of my forum experience reading Awsomer's posts and reviews. & when I *do* post a mix up, I would hope to have even half the critique or review that you awsomer post. Keep up the good work mate. Im sure a lot of peeps on here appreciate what you bring to the forum

    @Max jones. I would offer a review mate, but it is just not my taste of music. so i feel i should not say anything other than I have given it a couple of listens and wish you luck. as any one who produces their own sound/music in my opinion deserves a thumbs up
    Last edited by Zaniac; 08-17-2011 at 07:11 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Sorry man but it's just your feedback. I've been posting music to various forums for over a year and i've had plenty of negative feedback and i've taken it all in to account. I'd say about 75% of those comments has actually improved my tunes, and i've never felt angry or upset over any of it, or felt the need to retaliate. It's good that your providing this service to your community, but I don't reckon your review style is very helpful, especially since a lot of it is advising a complete change to a track (like a complete restructure, or "moving the entire vocal track 1 beat"), and nobody has anything that you've made to listen to in order to check if you actually know what your talking about. I guess what i'm trying to say is, if you're not a producer, comment on productions as a listen, not as a co-producer.

    Maybe, of course, that's just me.

    I'd say that if we were to go with your logic, judging by the nature of your response to my response, you've got some pretty large insecurities as well...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Jones View Post
    Sorry man but it's just your feedback. ... It's good that your providing this service to your community, but I don't reckon your review style is very helpful, especially since a lot of it is advising a complete change to a track (like a complete restructure, or "moving the entire vocal track 1 beat")
    There is no need to apologize, there are many cases where people miscommunicate and can even do so sincerely and in good faith.

    It is clear that my review style is not helpful to you and towards whatever goals you have posting your work here. I can pretty much only try to respect that and stop posting feedback to your posts, because I am unlikely to meaningfully change the format of my feedback.

    I agree that some of my feedback can be very specific and some of the suggestions major in scope. I do not intend these statements as a normative assertion that my artistic sense or ability is greater than that of the poster. They are simply the language I am able to use to describe what would make the track or mix better FOR ME.

    Clearly, what makes a track better FOR ME is not always going to be what would make the track better for the original producer. There will also be many cases where, for technical reasons, my suggestions may not be practical. I cannot know this when commenting, so I can... only comment.

    Using your specific example, in most DAWs, "dragging the entire vocal back 1 beat" is a trivial operation. I used this specific terminology because I presumed my audience would understand the specific suggestion as it relates to the different "tracks" in the multi-tracked music. My opinion was then and is now that your remix would be significantly improved by Badu's vocal being moved so it is "in the pocket" of your new beats, which would (I believe) be accomplished by moving it to the "left" one beat grid marker.

    There does not appear to be a meaningfully different way for me to express the above very specific idea.

    , and nobody has anything that you've made to listen to in order to check if you actually know what your talking about. I guess what i'm trying to say is, if you're not a producer, comment on productions as a listen, not as a co-producer.
    Dude, I don't expect you to BLINDLY TRUST my assertion, I expect you to CONSIDER it and TRY IT OUT IF YOU WANT. My feedback and advice comes with no warranty of appropriateness for ANY purpose.

    I have been producing music for the last 10 years or so. Most of my most active production and DJing time was in an era before Ableton Live, Traktor and Soundcloud. I have recently become more active due to changes in my work/life balance, and will shortly be posting work which I feel properly represents my current aesthetic and level of ability.

    As there is no certification program for who qualifies as a "producer," you will have to decide how much to value my ear and aesthetic judgements about music. However, unless you explicitly request it, I will not be making further potentially upsetting comments on your music.
    !!! AWESOMER !!!
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