Steinberg controllers!

[synthet1c]

Ummm ... BCR2000 / BCF2000 / BCD2000/3000 ? ...

good function on the bcr/bcf, crap quality though, thats the trade off behringer made to increase profits with such a cheap price. that seems behind them though, i could be wrong though as the cmd's are outrageously cheap, and behringer might not have changed their mantra just yet...

I wouldnt smack my worst enimy with the bcd its that crap. :eek:

[DJSp1n]

What amazes me above all, the Artist, they have a big list with HUGE names. Just by having Hans Zimmer which is a GENIUS, damn.

[nem0nic]

On another note are the encoders of the new units going to be bolted to the front panel like the X1 or just soldered to the board like the BCR

Both, where appropriate. There isn't anything wrong with either approach when executed properly.

good function on the bcr/bcf, crap quality though, thats the trade off behringer made to increase profits with such a cheap price.

First of all, how are the BCR or BCF "crap quality"? I would say that they deliver both quality and functionality well in excess of what they cost. And in the case of the BCF2000, can you name another 8 motorized fader controller in the market that is anywhere near the price of the BCF2000?

that seems behind them though, i could be wrong though as the cmd's are outrageously cheap, and behringer might not have changed their mantra just yet...

I'm not sure you're in a position to have any idea what products actually cost, and what is really cheap or expensive. This is a mistake a lot of people make. The reason Behringer can offer products at a low cost has less to do with quality and much more to do with how vertically integrated we are as a company and how much volume we do. When you open up our products, in many cases you'll find the same components other much more expensive companies offer, but we can buy those components at a much lower price because we buy them in such high volumes. In other cases - like with the motorized faders in the BCF2000 - there isn't a part available from an OEM that is price appropriate, so we develop and build our own. We can do this because we have our own R&D facility and our own factory. Having our own factory alone allows us to drop the production cost of any given product by double digits because OEM/ODMs charge a percentage to build product.

In the last 3 years, the changes you've seen in Behringer quality have come primarily from 2 different efforts in the company. First, we've invested heavily in factory automation and testing. This is why you're now seeing products like the X32 from us. And now all product coming off our lines is tested with Audio Precision analyzers (I believe Behringer is now the largest single owner of AP machines, owning around 150 of them to date). We are also now in the process of building a second factory. The second reason is because we've made a huge effort to staff up the Product Management side of the company. Instead of a team of people looking at a given market in a very generalist way, we now are hiring specialists that can examine the market in a more direct way and help anticipate (or establish) new trends.

I wouldnt smack my worst enimy with the bcd its that crap

Maybe now it is crap. But it was released in 2005. So let me ask you 2 things. First, what OTHER DJ controllers were out in 2005? In fact, what other DJ-centric controllers were shown at NAMM 2005? My second question is how many of those early controllers are still around now and selling at all - let alone with any volume? Thomann is one of the biggest MI retailers on the planet, and they conveniently publish their top selling products in each category. The BCD3000 is the #5 best selling DJ controller bundle - just under the Denon DN-MC6000 and right above the Numark Mixtrack Pro. And it's the #8 best selling DJ product in the DJ category in general.

[synthet1c]

in regards to the bcf, yes its great to have that availability of moterised faders, but If I were to go down that road of getting them myself I would much prefer to pay more to mackie and get quality, Im not that oldschool, but oldschool enough to want something simple that lasts and is quality if I am to outlay cash.

Yes behringer were one of the first to come out with dj midi controllers, that's great.., but since the 3000 there was no updates, and there were a lot of issues with the soundcard, to me that says behringer are settling for last in terms of reputation and becoming stale, and the reason I think they sold a lot is the price and the niche of the market in that not many other options were available, and again none in the same price range.

And I understand the PR from the companies point of view, but I would be a lot more confident if the products were more expensive and came with a metal chassis, premium componants & infinium faders etc... but again this is just speculation because I have never touched one... but if a company like vestax or numark decides to follow your lead and go modular behringer will lose out.

I'm still on your side but a spade is a spade.

[nem0nic]

...I would much prefer to pay more to mackie and get quality,...

But isn't the alternative also a viable business case? Many companies believe so, and exist to fill that niche.

Yes behringer were one of the first to come out with dj midi controllers, that's great...

I wouldn't use the BCD to DJ with either. But that doesn't mean that it isn't a good product for particular segment of users. It's been hugely successful because a certain segment of users see it as a desirable product.

And I understand the PR from the companies point of view, but I would be a lot more confident if the products were more expensive and came with a metal chassis, premium componants & infinium faders etc..

The products are priced according to their cost. This is something our company is very adamant about. And I've explained some of the reasons our products are lower cost. But let me ask you about something else you said. Why do you associate (for instance) a metal chassis with higher quality? Why is it OK for Pioneer to make a $2000 product out of plastic, but not OK for Behringer to make a $150 dollar product out of it? And what "premium components" are you referring to? How are you deeming them to be "premium"? Do they need to be branded differently in order to be "premium"? Or have you done testing on the performance of specific components and are judging based on that research? For that matter, why do you imply that an Infinium fader is better quality than something else? Do you know the failure rate of an Infinium fader versus something like a resistive Alpha of similar quality?

...if a company like vestax or numark decides to follow your lead and go modular behringer will lose out.

That's an interesting position. What would you think about a company that decided to follow our lead? Would they be less of a company for copying us?

I'm still on your side but a spade is a spade.

I'm asking these questions because this is exactly the kind of information that will help me in the future. But if we're calling a spade a spade, you have to admit that much of your opinion about Behringer is based on perception, rumor, and just about anything except real research and fact. That isn't meant as an insult at all, just an observation.

[synthet1c]

In regard to the components I am only basing anything I have said based on reviews by phil from ddjt and gizmo from scratchworx writeups, so it is completely heresay from others opinion, if they say that the buttons are not the best quality I definitely listen. I am only saying the infinium would be better because it has a smoother action and should be replaceable should something go wrong, The alternative is the terrible high friction potentiometers that end up bleeding found in things like the djm600, djx750. One of the main reasons I will get the vci400 is because the components are good (again reviews not experience).

The reason I feel that metal chassis components are better is because 99% of the time the components are firmly fixed to the chassis not just the pcb, this means I can worry less about the abuse they receive. I don't like anything pioneer have released since the cdj1000mk3 but they are heavy and solid and made with a different grade of plastic, abs feels cheap and the lowest grade I would be happy to accept is the stuff on akai mpd's, to me heavy = quality. I started djing in 2004 when most things were solid and trustworthy (accept behringer, gemini & numark).

I don't think anyone will copy behringer in the way that behringer copied pioneer so that is out of context, but if they take inspiration and go modular that is what I believe will happen if they make a more solid product than the cmd series.

Having owned a djx750 when my djm600 died and B215A's when I was younger I formed an opinion of those particular peice of gear, the djx felt terrible and one of the speakers died within a month... a mate had a bcd3000 it was okay i guess, but I was a one eyed vinyl dj at the time. I have used other behringer equipment a peoples houses from time to time.

yes i guess my opinion is based on perception mixed with my own experience, I have never researched anything, but surely taking that job being a professional dj you had to be aware of behringers reputation and the attitudes you would come against trying to reinvent the company. Like I said I am on your side, just stating a perception that I have about behringer that was formed before you were hired... But IMHO the dj wheel doesn't need to be reinvented just made better quality than anyone else, but because everything is so disposable quality has dropped to keep cost down, to me that is a negative. I have no idea how this got so long it was never my intention LOL

[nem0nic]

I know exactly what we have to deal with. And honestly, me trying to convince you of anything about Behringer is worthless. I want the product to speak for itself. But I also want people to judge fairly. Judge the product. If it's worth a shit, the brand image will work itself out.

[synthet1c]

amen

[deevey]

I started djing in 2004 when most things were solid and trustworthy (accept behringer, gemini & numark).

Numark certainly broke the mould and I can hope Behringer can do the same with these units.

I do agree that there is a sence of "breakability" about Pots that are not screwed into the faceplate vs soldered and supported by the PCB - even if it never happens it feels like it might, same deal with plastic stems vs metal.

Toyota vs Mercedes, they both have the same approximate life span, one just feels better than the other.

[nem0nic]

Toyota vs Mercedes, they both have the same approximate life span, one just feels better than the other.

This is a great analogy, but not in the way you're suggesting. If you want a Mercedes, buy a Mercedes. But it's more than a little stupid to buy a Toyota and complain it's not a Mercedes. It's not an apples to apples comparison.