Questions for the DB4 owners or users.

[rebelguy]

I have a question ... does anyone understand why the BPM ranges are not inclusive? Shouldn't 90-150 be 90-180 for example? What if something is 83 or 175? The range doesn't seem to have any effect on how well the mixer detects BPM but still, that's kind of strange.

This is very similar to the beat detection in Scratchlive. I think it may the way to deal with songs in higher or lower BPMs. Say you are doing a set where songs are in the 180BPM range (there is a lot of rock music in this area), you wouldn't want it detecting at 90BPM. Also say you have a song in the 65 BPM range. You may not want it to show as 130BPM.

[rebelguy]

I did have another question that hopefully someone can answer. Can you route the output of the DB4 to a program (Ableton for example) to use a VST and then have it routed back in. There doesn't seem to be a dedicated send and return in the hardware but is it possible to do through USB?

[djproben]

This is very similar to the beat detection in Scratchlive. I think it may the way to deal with songs in higher or lower BPMs. Say you are doing a set where songs are in the 180BPM range (there is a lot of rock music in this area), you wouldn't want it detecting at 90BPM. Also say you have a song in the 65 BPM range. You may not want it to show as 130BPM.

Maybe I'm not exactly getting my head around it but it seems that only works if you have one of the numbers in the range. But if you detect 90-150 and the song is 83 (166) it's out of range on both ends. What you're saying is a good reason to go 90-179 if you want the song to show up as 166, and 70-139 if you'd rather it show up as 83. But with 90-150 neither of those numbers shows up.

[djproben]

I did have another question that hopefully someone can answer. Can you route the output of the DB4 to a program (Ableton for example) to use a VST and then have it routed back in. There doesn't seem to be a dedicated send and return in the hardware but is it possible to do through USB?

you might try aggregating with Jack or something; maybe eventually I'll figure out how to do this myself. It actually is kind of a drawback to me that there are only 8 channels on the soundcard; it's nice to have some extra channels to do stuff like this. And no send/return is another complaint I have, but of course why would you need to send/return with such amazing effects on board. Still, with VSTs you could add a lot of effects that aren't covered on the hardware. I find myself still wanting to use the beatmasher and gater from Traktor for example; it would be amazing to have access to those effects with vinyl (it's possible using audio through in traktor but I havent even turned my computer on most of the time I've used the mixer so far). It would be great if they add similar effects in future firmware (is there a feature requests page?) but I don't know if those things fit easily into the six categories they've committed to.

[Xonetacular]

you might try aggregating with Jack or something; maybe eventually I'll figure out how to do this myself. It actually is kind of a drawback to me that there are only 8 channels on the soundcard; it's nice to have some extra channels to do stuff like this. And no send/return is another complaint I have, but of course why would you need to send/return with such amazing effects on board. Still, with VSTs you could add a lot of effects that aren't covered on the hardware. I find myself still wanting to use the beatmasher and gater from Traktor for example; it would be amazing to have access to those effects with vinyl (it's possible using audio through in traktor but I havent even turned my computer on most of the time I've used the mixer so far). It would be great if they add similar effects in future firmware (is there a feature requests page?) but I don't know if those things fit easily into the six categories they've committed to.

Beatmasher would go under dmg I presume, loop roll on the db4 is pretty much a beatmasher in chained mode completely wet which is how I used to use the beatmasher in traktor.

S/R would be nice but like you said isn't much you need it for.

[Xonetacular]

Is this what u were looking to do? I have no Ableton experience so Im not sure what people do with it to be honest. I mostly hear about 1) creating loops (which should just be routed to a db4 channel 2) applying FX (which u can do but not in the D/W sense - u just would use Ableton to apply the FX and then kick the output to a DB4 channel. Of course, the midi shift on DB4 would easily let u control Ableton parameters I would imagine if u map the buttons/knobs properly - so i suppose u could use ableton to control the D/W aspect as opposed to the db4 channel, right?).

He was saying he wanted to route the output out of the db4, into ableton, then back to the db4 creating a send/return loop. Not sure if you can do this.

If you just want a 5th channel you can hook up a soundcard and run it to the mic in, this is how Dubfire routes Maschine with Traktor (not sure if he uses two laptops or aggregates). This will be real easy when the K2 comes out since you will have your extra sound card right there, and if you own a DB4 you would be crazy not to buy a K2 if you use a laptop.

[Xonetacular]

Maybe, I haven't really messed with the soundcard inputs yet or have any idea how they work but that sounds possible. Maybe something with the record out, this is a little beyond me.

[djproben]

I believe that in the db4s case - it does detect outside the ranges.. I think i have it set to 90 to 150 and it will detect 80 bpm for slow songs. That said, i havent really touched it because i havent noticed ANY bad bpm readouts yet so i cant say if it performs any different if u change it.

U got any track titles that u could give an example with that u think db4 might not be handling well? It really is the best bpm detection ive personally seen on a mixer..

No, it detects perfectly every time pretty much; I just don't really understand what the range setting is doing.

[Xonetacular]

posting this here from the other thread- I just sent off this request to A&H for a firmware update that would make the DB4 a rotary mixer using the D/W knobs:

I just got my DB4 and love it and sitting here I realize there is potential to easily turn the DB4 into a rotary mixer with a firmware update. All you would have to do is swap the D/W knob and the volume fader on each channel so the linear fader becomes D/W and the big chunky knob becomes volume. This is absolutely perfect since it is the same knob as the 92R and S2 and is in the correct location, everything would stay the same except D/W would now be on the linear fader and volume would be on the rotary knob.

Seems pretty simple and it is laid out perfectly so that you could actually have a rotary mixer with a firmware update, that is absolutely huge and looking at it now seems like you almost planned it that way. You could switch between rotary mixer and linear mixer with a press of a button! The DB4 is revolutionary as it is, it would take it to the next level if you made it the only mixer ever to be able to toggle between rotary mixer and linear mixer mode.