MP-X10/Versadeck/Synchron/DMC2000/DJinn/S20 firmware update - programmers please help - Page 2
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  1. #11
    Tech Mentor escapemcp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reticuli View Post
    DISCONTINUED is a bad sign. It means no more support. Wow. Isn't Citronix the Euro branding of ADJ, or am I thinking of another brand?
    I think so... they certainly have a lot of similar items in their catalogue. Most of these are made by Hanpin in Taiwan, so not sure if they are just buying up these OEM units and rebranding, and therefore may be totally seperate companies. Citronic is owned by AVSL - not sure about AA tho'.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryansupak View Post
    On a related note, if you are doing MIDI and use the unit's soundcard with pgrm/cue channel assignments, the mini crossfader becomes a problem due to the cue signal being doubled on both sides and very loud in the middle. When in MIDI mode, I either use a different USB ASIO soundcard with it, change the cue blender to a different control and leave the mini crossfader on one side of the other, or I use it with ch1/ch2 routing instead.
    On mine, I get the option in settings to change the mixer mode to internal or midi. In mixer mode, the mixer always runs as a mixer with 2 stereo outs being presented to the pc/mac. Problem with this is that you can't use the hi/mid/lo/gain knobs for midi mapping. In midi mode, the mixer works as a midi mixer when BOTH ch1&2 are set to PC (whatever it's called - switch to right). When only 1 channel is set to PC then the sound enters channel 1 - if you have um, channel 1 set to PC and ch2 set to internal/line, then the mixer runs in internal (non-midi) mode, and you get the VU meters on ch1 metering what is coming out of ch1 (controlled by the actual sound, not by a midi output from traktor (hope that makes sense!). Will play around with the HP cue volume thing tonight.
    Quote Originally Posted by ryansupak View Post
    I would assume the master could be sent to the headphone when in internal USB mode. It's not a huge deal (earbuds under over-ear headphones works fine for practice), but I assume it's just software telling the audio signal where to route. Maybe the soundcard channels are hardwired into specific spots, but I kind of doubt it. I'll cross my fingers for that one.
    Um... not too sure what you are getting at... in midi mode, you get 2 stereo outs. One goes to master, the other to headphone... am I missing something here? (probably! )

    Quote Originally Posted by ryansupak View Post
    I mean it getting stuck when in vinyl internal USB mode and you rewind back. You can see the buffer empty. It gets stuck. This wouldn't be so bad if there was also a faster search method with the wheel. A button or something you could press and the jog moves you around fast, but without a nice vinyl scratch sound.
    Again, will test tonight.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryansupak View Post
    The internal USB jog bend definitely needs fixing to get rid of the ramp up. Good (or I guess unfortunate for you) to see this is not just ADJ's version. I hate using pitch bend buttons. I'd be fine with those being removed and replaced with pitch range up & pitch range down. Oh, on that point... a USB internal mode soft takeover for the pitch fader might be nice, but I suppose is unnecessary with the current 0.05 pitch resolution. You might as well keep the range at 16%, since lower ranges do not allow finer increments.
    +1 on the ramp up

    Not too sure on those 0.05 pitch resolution claims... ripped a Traktor CD to get the test tone, then put it on a USB stick. Ran that into a mate's Traktor Scratch, and used the pitch sliders. The BPM within Traktor ONLY changed when the unit's on-screen %-age changed.... in 6% this is 0.1 accuracy. I couldn't get Traktor to detect any movement between the 0.1 change! This will therefore be true for anything played through the unit in internal mode! - I *think* I tested this with +-16% (and only got 1% resolution)... will verify tonight.
    Quote Originally Posted by ryansupak View Post
    My top concern at this point, besides ADJ's firmware update promise and unknown timeline, is wav file playback glitches when in internal USB mode.
    Will test tonight.
    Quote Originally Posted by ryansupak View Post
    So if ADJ or the OEM doesn’t just come out and tell us when we can expect a firmware update, this unit will be going back. I don't want to bug that ADJ head product guy (Leo Valladolid, leov add americandj dooot com), but I can't hold onto this indefinitely while hoping they come through. Thank goodness for Amazon’s lengthy return policy on b-stock units. I think I have until the beginning of January.
    Lucky, bought mine from a local retailer... no such luck for me. So annoyed by this at the moment.. as I said before, it only needs a few tweaks in firmware, and it would be a really great unit. It's just so annoying with this (and all other controllers), that you don't discover these issues until you have the unit at home and are diving into it's features!

    Thanks for the feedback all, was worried this thread would disappear into the DJTT archives without much response.

    PC/Mhac, Traktor 2, Citronic MP-X10, 2 x Kam KCD450, Behringer BCD3000, Echo Audio Layla 3G, Numark EM-460 w/Kaoss Pad, Shure C606, Carlsbro Tytan PA, Turbosound TXD121 12" Tops, Reloop RHP-20
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  2. #12
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    So I'm ryansupak, now? Heh heh.

    You get two stereo outs regardless of whether the mixer is set to MIDI or Mixer. In Mixer mode the two get sent to each side of the mixer and the mixer works as a mixer. In live use, you essentially would always want to use Mixer mode and send ch1/ch2 to the unit. In MIDI mode, the unit sends one stereo channel to the unit's output section and the other to the unit's headphone section. This allows you to send master and headphone separately while using the DVS internal mixer. It also gives you cue/prgm panning. The problem is, in MIDI mode the same headphone signal is present on both sides of the mini crossfader, causing a loud summing in the middle on top of whatever the mini crossfader in the DVS is doing.

    I was also talking about when playing files from USB drives internally or when in Mixer Mode, that the firmware might be tweakable so that hitting the master meter button also sends pgrm/output signal to the headphones. If it's a digital mixer in there or has a DSP controlling the analog audio routing, then it should be possible.

    And when I'm talking about a 0.05% pitch limit, I meant in internal USB mode. 10-bit pitch faders are capable of better resolution at 10% and 6%, so hopefully the firmware can be improved to allow that, too. I don't know about yours, but in internal USB mode mine is 0.05 resolution at all pitch ranges. In DVS, you're already getting the best resolution you can with 10-bit. You get slightly better than 0.05% resolution at 16% range and even better as you go down in range. Try looking at how the BPM changes when the DVS doesn't show many tempo decimals.

    And the OEM really should have used 14-bit pitch faders when going 100mm. 10-bit faders only need to be 60mm long, as on 10-bit 100mm faders very small motions will go unregistered. With a 100mm 14-bit fader, even the smallest movement of the fader does something. Here, as in the Xponent, you have to watch the tempo or bpm to ensure you actually did something. Still, at least in internal USB mode, there is room for more resolution at 10% and 6%. The way it is in mine, I just leave it at 16% when running off an external drive, as you don’t get better res at the lower ones.


    Quote Originally Posted by escapemcp View Post

    On mine, I get the option in settings to change the mixer mode to internal or midi. In mixer mode, the mixer always runs as a mixer with 2 stereo outs being presented to the pc/mac. Problem with this is that you can't use the hi/mid/lo/gain knobs for midi mapping. In midi mode, the mixer works as a midi mixer when BOTH ch1&2 are set to PC (whatever it's called - switch to right). When only 1 channel is set to PC then the sound enters channel 1 - if you have um, channel 1 set to PC and ch2 set to internal/line, then the mixer runs in internal (non-midi) mode, and you get the VU meters on ch1 metering what is coming out of ch1 (controlled by the actual sound, not by a midi output from traktor (hope that makes sense!). Will play around with the HP cue volume thing tonight.
    Um... not too sure what you are getting at... in midi mode, you get 2 stereo outs. One goes to master, the other to headphone... am I missing something here? (probably! )


    Again, will test tonight.


    +1 on the ramp up

    Not too sure on those 0.05 pitch resolution claims... ripped a Traktor CD to get the test tone, then put it on a USB stick. Ran that into a mate's Traktor Scratch, and used the pitch sliders. The BPM within Traktor ONLY changed when the unit's on-screen %-age changed.... in 6% this is 0.1 accuracy. I couldn't get Traktor to detect any movement between the 0.1 change! This will therefore be true for anything played through the unit in internal mode! - I *think* I tested this with +-16% (and only got 1% resolution)... will verify tonight.

    Will test tonight.

    Lucky, bought mine from a local retailer... no such luck for me. So annoyed by this at the moment.. as I said before, it only needs a few tweaks in firmware, and it would be a really great unit. It's just so annoying with this (and all other controllers), that you don't discover these issues until you have the unit at home and are diving into it's features!

    Thanks for the feedback all, was worried this thread would disappear into the DJTT archives without much response.
    Last edited by Reticuli; 12-13-2011 at 10:50 AM.

  3. #13
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    Hey all,

    very new to this place and happy to found a place where`s a thread like this

    I own the "DMC-2000". What to say, i`m generally fine with it. The only real bad thing is: Synq doesn`t provide an ASIO driver so you have to stay with Asio4All which isn`t running that well.

    Now i saw that the other companies licensed the driver from "usb-audio.com" - i`m wondering if i could get my device to work with it? I changed some "guild class" ID into the ini`s and at least the device is found by the driver. But after a reboot you can`t select the device into the ASIO panel of the driver...i don`t have that much clue about the things i have to change into the ini files. Anyone?
    Why i want to have lower latency? Well, i own Mixvibes Cross as well and i want to use my timecode vinyls...

    BTW: My firmware info: CON 13 / DSP 12

    I will reply to the post before later on when i checked all the things with my device. Would be real interesting to see if the unit will act different.
    Last edited by sakaana; 12-15-2011 at 11:54 AM.

  4. #14
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    I had no idea the Sync version doesn't come with the ASIO drivers. Strange considering I think they're the company that designed it. I don't know if they're true kernel drivers I've got or a wrapper like ASIO4ALL. I know ASIO4ALL does not do true bit perfect, but usually can get low latency. Some people say it's superior to the non-kernel wrapper style drivers used by Emu and others. Have you tried moving the Sync over to its own dedicated IRQ? I have to remove my battery from the laptop, install the unit on the same dedicated IRQ USB port as the Emu 0204 uses (when the Versadeck isn't plugged in), and had to find a stable latency. I also found the Versadeck couldn't be moved to just any port once installed. You have to uninstall it and re-install on the new port, including the requisite reboots.

  5. #15
    Tech Mentor escapemcp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reticuli View Post
    So I'm ryansupak, now? Heh heh.
    Oops... copy & paste from another post

    Quote Originally Posted by Reticuli View Post
    And when I'm talking about a 0.05% pitch limit, I meant in internal USB mode. 10-bit pitch faders are capable of better resolution at 10% and 6%, so hopefully the firmware can be improved to allow that, too. I don't know about yours, but in internal USB mode mine is 0.05 resolution at all pitch ranges. In DVS, you're already getting the best resolution you can with 10-bit. You get slightly better than 0.05% resolution at 16% range and even better as you go down in range. Try looking at how the BPM changes when the DVS doesn't show many tempo decimals.
    Yeah, I was looking at the BPM in Traktor when controlled by DVS... couldn't get it to change at all WITHOUT the on-lcd %age display on the unit changing. When you say 0.05% at all pitch ranges, how can you tell? My %age meter only shows 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 etc (@ +/- 6%). When moving it between these 'points', I don't get any change in Traktor bpm (so the unit is not outputting, say a 0.25 speed, only 0.2 or 0.3) - this is in internal USB mode, which is then controlling Traktor via timecode. BPM doesn't change at all (unless I 'tap' in a tempo - will try this soon), due to the 2kHz timecode signal (damn, no beats!! )

    Quote Originally Posted by Santa Claus - Ho Ho Ho :) View Post
    And the OEM really should have used 14-bit pitch faders when going 100mm. 10-bit faders only need to be 60mm long, as on 10-bit 100mm faders very small motions will go unregistered. With a 100mm 14-bit fader, even the smallest movement of the fader does something. Here, as in the Xponent, you have to watch the tempo or bpm to ensure you actually did something. Still, at least in internal USB mode, there is room for more resolution at 10% and 6%. The way it is in mine, I just leave it at 16% when running off an external drive, as you don’t get better res at the lower ones.
    Will test what you have said soon... will try to make youtube video Thanks for your input on this.

    Apologies for delay... Christmas an' all that Bah, humbug!

    PC/Mhac, Traktor 2, Citronic MP-X10, 2 x Kam KCD450, Behringer BCD3000, Echo Audio Layla 3G, Numark EM-460 w/Kaoss Pad, Shure C606, Carlsbro Tytan PA, Turbosound TXD121 12" Tops, Reloop RHP-20
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  6. #16
    Tech Mentor escapemcp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakaana View Post
    Hey all,
    I own the "DMC-2000". What to say, i`m generally fine with it. The only real bad thing is: Synq doesn`t provide an ASIO driver so you have to stay with Asio4All which isn`t running that well.

    Now i saw that the other companies licensed the driver from "usb-audio.com" - i`m wondering if i could get my device to work with it? I changed some "guild class" ID into the ini`s and at least the device is found by the driver. But after a reboot you can`t select the device into the ASIO panel of the driver...i don`t have that much clue about the things i have to change into the ini files. Anyone?
    Why i want to have lower latency? Well, i own Mixvibes Cross as well and i want to use my timecode vinyls...

    BTW: My firmware info: CON 13 / DSP 12

    I will reply to the post before later on when i checked all the things with my device. Would be real interesting to see if the unit will act different.
    I tried to get the American Audio ASIO driver working (they didn't supply one or make one available for download for my MP-X10!), and just found it to be a rebadged (only just!) asio4all driver. A bit stupid by Citronic (for not supplying an ASIO driver), as I was unable to get the 2 stereo outputs working without Asio4all (hmm... possible excuse for an RMA??? - I want the Synchron unit due to its' superior FX )

    Which drivers did you download to try to get working (by changing GUID)... I would be interested to see/fiddle with them. Thanks for the f/w info - going to compare to mine tonight.

    Thanks

    P.S. You shouldn't have to 'justify' wanting an ASIO driver i.e. "Why i want to have lower latency?" - it is a requirement for any sort of decent interaction with Traktor, even non DVS.

    PC/Mhac, Traktor 2, Citronic MP-X10, 2 x Kam KCD450, Behringer BCD3000, Echo Audio Layla 3G, Numark EM-460 w/Kaoss Pad, Shure C606, Carlsbro Tytan PA, Turbosound TXD121 12" Tops, Reloop RHP-20
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  7. #17
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    You can always use WASAPI without needing ASIO, but in some pro or dvs software, some multichannel interfaces will only show up as one channel stereo pair. So you just have to give them a try.

    Why would you use Traktor with timecode running from inside the unit in USB internal mode? I realize that can be done, but seems like a lot of extra steps. On the Versadeck, you're also lowering your resolution when your range is set to lower than 16%, since its MIDI resolution on the pitch faders is better than 0.05% when lower. When I say I get only 0.05% res in USB internal mode at any range, it's because the Versadeck shows in the middle of the display those increments separate from the normal BPM in the lower right. The whole middle of the display changes to show this fine increment then disappears after about 2 seconds.

    Like I said, though, a 100mm 10-bit fader still has some play in the fader motion where tiny increments might not do anything, so especially in USB internal mode (and to some extend when using MIDI/DVS) you need to watch and make sure the increment actually registered. With a 14-bit 100mm fader, every movement does something. In fact, sometimes you might nudge it and actually cause it to move in the wrong direction. The Xponent faders after having been cleaned/lubed with 3-in-1 are so loose that if they were 14-bit instead of 10-bit (which they unfortunately are) I think that might be the way to go. You have to be VERY gentle with the Xponent, but you don't need to worry about moving it the wrong way due to resistance.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by escapemcp View Post
    I tried to get the American Audio ASIO driver working (they didn't supply one or make one available for download for my MP-X10!), and just found it to be a rebadged (only just!) asio4all driver.
    Well. American Audio licensed the driver of http://usb-audio.com which is not the same as "Asio4All". However it seems to be some universal driver as well. No idea if it would run better than "Asio4All".

    I really don`t know why Citronic does not support that unit anymore after a FEW months. Thats evil.

    I can post my modifications later on here.

  9. #19
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    I don't think ASIO4ALL is actually a low-level ASIO driver, though. It's a higher level wrapper for Windows Audio that gives you ASIO compatibility with applications. Interestingly, some other supposed ASIO drivers are just wrappers, too. I can't say if American Audio's are the good ones or not.
    Last edited by Reticuli; 12-20-2011 at 05:29 PM.

  10. #20
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    I think we just need somebody to modify that "Voxoa" or "American Audio" licensed "usb-audio.com" driver. As i posted before, i changed that "class id" thing and the AA driver detected my device. However my device wasn`t shown up at the GUI of the driver.

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