Trouble with my crabs.
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  1. #1
    DJTT Scribe Mod smiTTTen's Avatar
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    Default Trouble with my crabs.

    No, not those U31.

    I have Numark TTXs running Timecode S4+Innofader. I am learning the crab scratch and have spent beaucoup time learning the 4 finger tap on the fader (I have even been carrying a spare xfader round in my pocket for some clandestine clicking practice during dull business meetings - don't ask).

    My issue is that Traktor frequently treats multiple individual taps as a single tap meaning I am just not getting the sound I need.

    Soooooooooooooo, is it:

    1. Traktor Latency - not convinced on this on as my system is pretty rapid and my overall latency is 5.2/5.3ms
    2. Hardware curve on Innofader - I have this set to STEP so there's no real curve, it's pretty much on/off.
    3. Traktor Mixer Crossfader settings. It's currently 95% over the right/sharp/quick side.
    4. Idiot Operator: There could be 1001 things wrong with my technique.

    I will continue to assume it's #4 until I learn something to contrary but thought I would see if any of you have run into this or something similar.

    Beats By Dre is like audio flu for your balls.

  2. #2
    Tech Guru synthet1c's Avatar
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    When I had trouble with crabs, I had to apply lather of lotion liberally on my hands and slowly massage the affected area... to loosen up the muscles. I needed to warm my thumb up to being loose enough to perform crabs LOL .

    I started with 1 click flares to get the timing, then twiddling 2 clicks, from there twiddling 3 clicks take about 30mins to master. After this young padawan you will have the loosness in your thumb to perform crabs, shortly after though you will realise they sound crap, and 1, 2 and 3 sound better and are more even between cuts.

    It shouldn't be the latency as I can do it perfectly in vdj and a reloop jockey 2 as the mixer. the crossfader however I have set up so it only has 1% travel before fading. maybe you should look into that
    Last edited by synthet1c; 01-08-2012 at 11:59 AM.
    Why did the elephant get lost... Cause the Jungle is MASSIVE!

  3. #3
    DJTT Scribe Mod smiTTTen's Avatar
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    Thanks! Twiddling I have no issue with so I guess I am probably answering my own question. I am also working on my flares which are going to be far the greatest hill to climb if I want to get the level of control I am looking for. It's like rubbing your stomach and patting your head while being pushed out of a helicopter.

    Would be AWESOME if you could post a really short showing how you go through these scratched. I know there are 1000's of vids on line but it would be great to see something specific to this thread! If you post, I will post a response showing how close (or far) I can get to them.

    Beats By Dre is like audio flu for your balls.

  4. #4
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    I never said a word....

  5. #5
    Tech Guru synthet1c's Avatar
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    i'll see what I can do, but i smashed my camera on new years, Have to see what my phones video looks like..

    but another way of doing flares is move the record and just think of cutting the sound off in the middle, so forward, cut, forward, backward, cut, backward, repeat

    It's not the way I thought about it learning (i did it dj angelos way) but if may be easier

    the way I learnt is

    forward & close, open & forward, backward & close, backward & open

    that way it is four actions in your head, then once you can almost do it chuck on some 80bpm stuff like busta, and do it at that speed, then slowly increase the speed of the tracks you play

    then when you have that down to do two clicks its just

    forward & twiddle, forward, backward & twiddle, backward

    three clicks simply are
    forward & twididdle, forward, backward & twididdle, backward
    Why did the elephant get lost... Cause the Jungle is MASSIVE!

  6. #6
    Tech Guru djproben's Avatar
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    You need to make sure you are closing the fader completely in between taps; from your description it sounds like that's not happening. I learned the finger taps using double tap to start -- pinky-pinky, ring-ring, bird-bird, index-index -- this helps build the finger strength and muscle memory you need to get all the taps right.

    I haven't really used the S4 much but Traktor's internal crossfader cut kinda sucks, so that might be the problem too, but I'm guessing since you have the innofader installed that you are short-circuiting the software's limitations with the hardware the same way it is done on the VCI-100. You can see on the screen what's happening with the crossfader so you should know if this is a problem.

    All that said, I don't really use full crabs much. Partly coz I suck at scratching I suppose. But twiddles and three-click crabs are far more useful in my opinion. And if you can flare with the three click crab you can get your 1-2-3-4.
    "Art is what you can get away with." - Marshall McLuhan

  7. #7
    Tech Mentor oneapemob's Avatar
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    Why not go with the 100% fast cut in traktor ?
    When i use my vci-100 as a midi mixer (original crossfader still) with trakor scratch pro i can do a 4 click crab no problem.
    If else, what DjProben said, when my crabs won't do 4 clicks, it's because i'm not completly closing the crossfader.
    macbook pro, technics trntbl, numark pro sm-1, vestax pmc 08 pro, traktor scratch pro 2, akai mpd 24, novation nocturn, vci-100 fw1.4, krk rp5g2 and FBV express mk2

  8. #8
    Tech Guru djproben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneapemob View Post
    Why not go with the 100% fast cut in traktor ?
    When i use my vci-100 as a midi mixer (original crossfader still) with trakor scratch pro i can do a 4 click crab no problem.
    That's the VCI talking, not Traktor The VCI fader has the hardware curve adjustment on the back of the unit; it sends signals to traktor so the xfader is just open or close. But if you use another midi crossfader and set the curve in traktor there is not a complete cut.

    Or at least that's what I recall when I tried it last, which was forever ago, so forgive me if I'm talking out my ass...
    "Art is what you can get away with." - Marshall McLuhan

  9. #9
    Tech Mentor oneapemob's Avatar
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    I use the crossfader (vci) with a complete slope, because i use it as a modifier in my mapping (with range 0 to 8 ), the cut comes from traktor software.
    It really should be an on/off cut if at 100% cut in traktor. But even with a bit of slope in it, the problem Imo comes more from not closing it completely at each click, or failing that, maybe it's the cut in lag that is giving you trouble.
    macbook pro, technics trntbl, numark pro sm-1, vestax pmc 08 pro, traktor scratch pro 2, akai mpd 24, novation nocturn, vci-100 fw1.4, krk rp5g2 and FBV express mk2

  10. #10
    Tech Guru sarasin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneapemob View Post
    maybe it's the cut in lag that is giving you trouble.
    This!

    I did the credit card mod on mine to kill the deadspace. Helped a stack.
    APC80:STR8-100's+Ortofon Concorde Scratch\Electro:ButterRugz:TSP2-NI Audio4DJ:Xone22+Innofader:MacBook Pro 15"
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