Has anyone tried the Gemini CDJ 700?

[deevey]

I know this is an old topic, but I've just got confirmation by my friend who works for Pioneer, that the Gemini CDJ700 was built in license to Pioneer. So it's not just a rip-off ! It's way better than that ! And yes, I want two !

Well that depends on which parts were actually licensed. You can make a cellphone that is completely different to everyone else but still need to license the rights to certain technologies in order for it to function.

In the case of Gemini it obviously was not the software, or screen, so maybe the jogwheel ?

I think they are a good cheap alternative for home practice use if your goal is to transition to Playing on Pioneers using (basic) MP3's or CDJ's in clubs.

But with the CDJ850 at only around $150 - 200 bucks more expensive these days which having record box support, HID native control for Serato, Midi and better soundcards (assuming), not to mention the high resale value it would seem like a no-brainer that for anyone who thinks they will stick with it that pioneers would be the more logical long term purchase.

Dont get me wrong, I think they are good value for the features, they were just a much, much better deal before 850's became more reasonably priced.

[Lao Ma]

But with the CDJ850 at only around $150 - 200 bucks more expensive these days which having record box support, HID native control for Serato, Midi and better soundcards (assuming), not to mention the high resale value it would seem like a no-brainer that for anyone who thinks they will stick with it that pioneers would be the more logical long term purchase.

Dont get me wrong, I think they are good value for the features, they were just a much, much better deal before 850's became more reasonably priced.

In germany the difference between these is 400,00 EUROS! CDJ 700-400,00 CDJ 850-800,00

[Reticuli]

Looks like the Reloop RMP-3 is a different version of the Usolo FX. It loses the Usolo and CDJ-700's memcard readers. Like the Usolo, it lacks soundcard capability. Seems like a no-brainer, but Akiyama/Hanpin otherwise has a promising budget design in the Usolo FX and RMP-3 with its link/share feature for two units. Not the full network capability of Denon and Pioneer, but it's something. Gemini needed a full router network feature to own the battle.

Whoever can do a DJ media player with 14bit pitch fader, AIFF support, soundcard MIDI mode, wide waveform display, and full >2 (3 would be sufficient) drive-share linking capability at a fraction of the price of the CDJ2000 will have a winner. Memcard reader, CD player, and effects are optional requirements. I'd vote in favor of SPDIF outs, though.

I'm thinking Numark might be able to pull it off.

[julamy0109]

They're fun to play with but my turn off was the MIDI mode. I tried to set them up with Traktor yesterday and it seems like the mapping that comes with it really sucks (no lights or anything like this). Could just be me but as of now, I definitely prefer the almost plug-n-play feeling of my CDJ-400 to having to remap the whole thing with those (but it could be my computer or my CDJ-700 being stupid).

[Reticuli]

They're fun to play with but my turn off was the MIDI mode. I tried to set them up with Traktor yesterday and it seems like the mapping that comes with it really sucks (no lights or anything like this). Could just be me but as of now, I definitely prefer the almost plug-n-play feeling of my CDJ-400 to having to remap the whole thing with those (but it could be my computer or my CDJ-700 being stupid).

When has Traktor ever had flawless mapping, though? It's never played well with my Mixtrack, Versadeck, or DJ Tech CDJ-101s. The lights are always the hardest thing to manage on it and I still don't think I've ever got it right. The only hardware it ever liked of mine was an old Hercules DJ Console Mk2 I have laying around. I got fed up with NI and moved over to VDJ for when I go MIDI... most of the time I try to stay away from the laptop, at least when practicing at home.

And to be fair to the competition, everything out there except Serato Scratch Live and Deckadance don't even have particularly good sound quality. I've been shocked how poor Torq 2 (bless that beautiful interface and mapping system), Traktor, and Virtual DJ sound. Of these three, VDJ has such a MASSIVE lead in usability and features that it's just ridiculous. If you go DVS vinyl or CDs, then Scratch Live is still a great option. If you want MIDI, VDJ is just a no brainer with the alternatives available.

Serato DJ has been a fail with bugs and freezes up the wazoo, not to mention a dearth of controller support.

Deckadance is a little hit and miss, though they admittedly have the best low-end fidelity of anything out there. DD1 sounded better than the rest and now DD2 has done something to their processing system that, while adding a bit of synthetic gloss to the mids, makes the lows sound reference, especially with internal mixer mode.

With the available options out there, I don't know why anyone puts up with NI. I've gotten so many BSOD in their audio config screen, for a year their pitch bend system was busted in Pro 2, and it wasn't until just this past year they finally got key correction. I think VDJ 8 will probably put an end to people griping about Atomix's offering looking "amateur". If they can also get the sound up to DD and Scratch's level, then it's not looking good for NI.

Personally, I prefer these standalone players that lack sync to all the DVS and MIDI stuff. You end up like hypnotoad with a laptop in front of you, and sync just makes us lazy, dumb, and prone to allowing major f---ups to happen. Most of all, there's no joy in it for me with a laptop. I get that "by a thread" or "the seat of your pants" thing going on with a standalone player that laptop DJing, by contrast, doesn't give me.

Speaking of Numark, they seem to be out to lunch nowadays. They used to be very ambitious, though with too many skimping price brackets they were designing to and a quality control system strait out of hell. But at least they were innovating and producing some extremely feature-rich designs. They just seem to be phoning it in now since they got bought out by that inMusic. Kind of sad. They always seemed like a fantastic combination of features, sound quality, and ergonomics when you could get a decently-assembled and parted unit.

I have a lot of respect for Denon and I can only assume it's their lack of sponsorship and free gear that is the reason they didn't take over as the club standard a long time ago. But I'm also of the opinion that Mixvibe & Pioneer's Rekordbox is an embarrassment, not to mention I think Pioneer's prices are certifiably insane, so take my opinion as you will.

[makar1]

And to be fair to the competition, everything out there except Serato Scratch Live and Deckadance don't even have particularly good sound quality. I've been shocked how poor Torq 2 (bless that beautiful interface and mapping system), Traktor, and Virtual DJ sound.

The sound quality all depends on the audio interface used. SSL is not going to have any better sound quality than Traktor with the same setup, since SSL doesn't do any mixing itself.

[Reticuli]

The sound quality all depends on the audio interface used. SSL is not going to have any better sound quality than Traktor with the same setup, since SSL doesn't do any mixing itself.

Right, and that probably means Deckadance is an even more significant sonic achievement to be capable of such standout sound from a digital mix section.

You're right: SSL is slaved to the interface, but Rane's gear has never disappointed in that regard.

Given what I found comparing the major djing software except Cross on multi thousand watt systems, electrostatic headphones, audiophile stuff, and a fixed home ribbon tweetered monitoring system, they all sound different given identical interfaces... whether the common comparison interface is low end (a Versadeck) or high end (a Mackie D4 or Emu 0204). It actually came as a surprise to me since I assumed with effects and key correction symbols simply off the audio processing code should become relatively simple. While varying the interface is certainly going to have an effect (the Mackie and the Emu sound better than the Versadeck), so are most of these software affecting the sound, too, and in differing ways.

I've already mentioned DD and SSL.

Torq 2 is a dynamically and data-compressed, dark, slightly harsh tone. Its impulse response is stunted and inverted. Sounds pretty good with minimalist stuff, but that's about it. I LOVE the interface, look, useability, and mapping capability on it. So that's a big disappointment for me. I also like Ableton for a variety of reasons, so its Rewire features just add more insult to injury. Oh, and it's the best VST effect compatibility of any of them. Ouch. Really too bad. I wish inMusic would revive it and just improve the sound processing and rerelease it.

Traktor used to be top notch sound and the one I compared everything else to before using DD, but at this point is starting to sound more processed with each new generation. I can't say why that is. It still has the same slightly-bloated low-end, and now also isn't quite as refined to my ears through the rest of the spectrum as it used to be. If they could improve that low-end and retain the refinement they used to have, it'd be reference stuff.

VDJ used to be a little thin and brittle, but very open sounding. Kind of an acquired taste. The new 32bit DSP section versions are warmer sounding, but at the same time adds a touch of dithering textured signature to everything. I probably should get off my butt and run some tests to determine what exactly they've done to it to cause that in terms of measurable performance, but I haven't. A lot of people were complaining about it being bright, so they've certainly taking steps to resolve that. Low-end has probably arguably always been better than Traktor and the rest I wouldn't say is any worse even now. The interface, customization, and usability, though, is so far beyond the competition that it leaves the rest in the dust considering the sound isn't, on average, any worse than Traktor. So, yeah, you can get better sonics from SSL and DD, but unless you're going DVS timecode that makes SSL an option, DD is not worth the effort for its sound unless you have a controller very dedicated to it and you've carefully worked out the bugs ahead of time and validated your system stability. Even then, you'd still be stuck with DD2's slowwwww search engine and other niggles. VDJ is just so seamless and carefree to me in comparison.

Mixxx is pretty unsure of itself and not ready for primetime. And that's just the sound, not getting into the issues of mapping, features, or stability. Impulse responses and RightMark were all poor when I tested it. It is free, though, so you can't complain too much.

Another thing worth mentioning, obviously, are poor quality outboard mixers. Most of the internal mix sections on these software that have them are a substantial step up from the average DJ mixer. Only the very best analog mixers and digital mixers with digital inputs can match them. I can't really tell that much difference between the 64bit Deckadance mix section and the ones that use 32 or 16 bit ones when comparing internal mixer sections between them versus using a high-end outboard mixer, so I'm not going to claim that's what's going on. For all I know, it's something else that's going on and causing the sonic differences besides the internal mixer. Who knows.

Also interesting, the only ones that allowed Elastique to be completely turned off entirely, it seemed from the Rightmark results, was Deckadance and Virtual DJ. The 16bit DSP version of VDJ performed quite well with keylock completely switched off in the options. I remember, in particular, that Torq's never totally switch that code off and Traktor seemed inconsistent as to whether the code was completely disabled or not, depending on the sequence of what you did. I could turn key correction on, turn it off, and the waveforms would still be mutilated until the program was restarted or I went into options and changed its mode. Kind of weird. But I get the sense that NI's code is very complicated and with possibly a turnover in their coders over the years. Might explain why it took so long to resolve that pitch bend glitch a while back.

It might sound like I'm being a hater, but I'm not. I point these differences out because I want them all to improve and succeed. Competition is a good thing.

Man... the irony of me rattling on at length about this shit considering I don't even ENJOY laptop djing. That's why I still keep that Versadeck around and I have an interest in standalone players ;-P For sheer ease of setup, convenience, usability, options, and... yeah... sound quality, the whole laptop MIDI thing has its benefits when doing live gigs. It's nice to have a standalone backup, but I admittedly prefer the "comfort" of a simple live MIDI setup now. Probably a combination of laziness and nerves on my part. But I just hate using it for leisure mixing. Too much information. Too much automation. Too much hypnotoad syndrome. It's like the laptop reaches in and tears the joy of Djing right out of me.

[makar1]

There's nothing stopping you from using Rane interfaces for Traktor or VDJ if you're after quality.

I'm fairly sure that turning off Keylock in Traktor disables Elastique, as I was testing this a while back to see how the Keylock affects the lows and highs. It did seem to remove some of the impact and clarity which might be what you're describing. With Keylock off and EQ set to Classic, Traktor should be sending a bit-perfect signal to the DAC and so should sound identical to SSL.

Every PA system I've listened to has sounded awful anyway - and far too loud for precise listening, so the finer details in each software don't make much difference in the end.

[Reticuli]

There's nothing stopping you from using Rane interfaces for Traktor or VDJ if you're after quality.

I'm fairly sure that turning off Keylock in Traktor disables Elastique, as I was testing this a while back to see how the Keylock affects the lows and highs. It did seem to remove some of the impact and clarity which might be what you're describing. With Keylock off and EQ set to Classic, Traktor should be sending a bit-perfect signal to the DAC and so should sound identical to SSL.

Every PA system I've listened to has sounded awful anyway - and far too loud for precise listening, so the finer details in each software don't make much difference in the end.

You're absolutely right that Rane's interface can be used for other stuff. I like my Mackie, though.

Highly, highly unlikely it's anywhere near bit perfect. Sounds processed to me. Not as bad as Torq 2, but definitely worse than the old silky (pre "Pro"?) Traktor I was used to.

Updated VDJ, and Atomix definitely has been listening to users. I might even be warming up (no pun intended) to the overall sound, including of the mix bus portion of the code. Low end is definitely better than Traktor now. Imageline knows their stuff, but VDJ's fidelity may soon rival them at this rate. I switched from a standalone player to using that as an interface with the laptop running the decoding... man, no comparison to the player's CODEC or whatever it is.

It's so refreshing to see a company treating its users respectfully, and it's such a breeze to map, configure, or whatever else I need. Traktor Pro is such a pain.