Why You Won't See Traktor on Linux - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Again so what? I have Glovepie open on my Vista workstation to create binds for my Wiimote so that I can set my beatgrids with it while reading over the Mixxx site on my laptop. Opened everything on both machines with my mouse and a few clicks. Hmm, maybe I'll grid a couple of tracks while my compiler builds the Mixxx beta.
    And may I add, while watching these damned San Jose Sharks choke away another playoff appearance.

    Damn, I'm starting to really dislike my beloved team!

  2. #22
    DJTT Moderator bloke Karlos Santos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by empolo View Post
    but to figure out *why* the market is so anemic for this platform given its strengths.
    Because the 'market' isnt some anonymous group out there somewhere. The 'market' is ME and a lot the other pro/bedroom/hobby/just for kicks DJs that come on this Forum.
    The 'market' ISNT you and the few. You obviously have a lot of knowledge about this and, lets say 'Computer shizzle' (for the folks who dont get any of this).
    But geekery doesnt make for a sensible Product line.
    Which brings me to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by empolo View Post
    Admittedly, I did use NI as the main example but they certainly are not the only DJ software company that doesn't see a market.
    NI are not a DJ software Company. Traktor is just a part of what they do.
    If they developed a Linux version of Traktor, what about Guitar Rig and Kore and Kontact and Reaktor and the list goes on and on . Why just Traktor. And then HOW do all of them.

    Its easy to name these small companies who are geared around such things as Linux and see it as some Holly Quest but do the guys that make Mixx also produce:
    24 different Programs (my last count)
    3 Soundcards
    A Groovebox
    A controller for Kore
    A guitar Pedal
    DVS hardware
    list goes on


    How do they fit Linux in amongst all that.
    And its not right to say that they could channel some of the revenue from all the above into it. The revenue from all those products has been what has helped them develop those products adding them as a they go along.
    I know it may be an over simplistic way of looking at things but given a choice i think NI would be happier having Maschine out there that a Linux version of Traktor .


    I cant personally see the point . I dont physically know how my DJ setup could be more stable or more reliable or more usable than it already is with OSX. I have zero problems and you cant improve on than .

    BTW- my team won this weekend. We only need 1 more win to be guaranteed to stay in our league this season and avoid relegation. Phew !!!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by empolo View Post
    The purpose is not to lobby NI with a single thread (hell, they've been lobbied for a couple of years now) but to figure out *why* the market is so anemic for this platform given its strengths. Admittedly, I did use NI as the main example but they certainly are not the only DJ software company that doesn't see a market.

    You see there's always hope. There may be a catalyst somewhere that opens the door, someday. If there is, it will definitely start with the community - not by a product manager who isn't willing to take a bet.
    Give it time. For now Linux rocks on servers, is starting to rock on thin clients and home internet/word processing needs (all areas where people rely on open source apps .. though potentially with a support subscription). For gaming it can work (especially if you are into ID software titles) and for everything else there is the "cludge" called WINE.

    I am not throwing around stuff like "daily issues" as a reason that Linux is not supported here. Its just that the numbers of people using Linux for gaming/audio/video/graphic's processing on the desktop as their _work_ machine willing to pay $$$ for apps (and support) are too low. They will grow eventually .. if they reach a critical mass ever .. I am not sure.

  4. #24
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    Soon it won't matter, I don't know much about programming but Qt seems like the IDE of future projects with its loose coupling through signals and slots. Being able to compile for all OS's seems like the next step to me.

    I would be keen to get some programmers' thoughts on Qt. It's released under the LGPL now
    Macbook 2Ghz, 4Gb Ram, Presonus Firebox, X-Session Pro, Behringer BCR2000, Technics RPDJ-1200's.

  5. #25
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    Well it certainly has potential. Qt is the basis for KDE, which is the primary choice for writing UI based apps on most Unix OS's next to Gnome for the past years. Since Qt has been bought by Nokia, they have loosened the licensing terms for using Qt on proprietary OS's. As a result the KDE guys have started to port a lot of their apps to Windows/OS X.

    That being said, I assume NI isn't using Qt as its basis atm and moving to Qt would be a major undertaking. However, NI must already have some OS abstraction layer that is somewhat friendly to *nix, because of the OSX version. So its entirely possible for them to either port this layer to Linux or try and see if they can write a wrapper around Qt that would make it a drop in replacement.

    Speaking of cross platform. Microsoft with their .Net and CLR have also tried to make it easier to do some of this. Well for the platforms they care for, but there is an open source implementation of their spec (Mono), which seems to keep up quite well with the new developments.

  6. #26
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    sweet, interesting to see that Qt is being adopted commercially and open source, KDE, Google and Nuke etc. Not to mention VLC which I couldn't live without, sorry if I am behind the times.

    Friend: "I tried to play a video (or DVD) and it didn't work"
    Me: "Do you have VLC?"
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  7. #27
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    This isn't your father's OS....
    But when you are a developer, you have to appeal to your greatest use case. And that ISN'T users that have comfort doing things that force them into the arcane corners of their OS. As far as ME being a point a click person, 10 seconds of research will tell you that I'm not. But I do work for a company heavily involved in digital DJing, and have an idea of what it takes to bring a product to market.

    Linux was started with a Usenet group posting...
    I assure you an average user will not care how Linux was started when they're frustrated because they can't make their audio interface work. You don't seem to be able to grasp that you aren't the average user, and the suggestions you put forth to corroborate your opinion that Linux is somehow friendly to the average user are funny enough that I actually laughed when I read them. I would LOVE for you to be involved for 1 day in supporting a DJ product, because you have NO IDEA right now what a typical user is. That ignorance is a luxury you can certainly afford, but NI can not.

    I don't need to add anything. SuSE, Red Hat, Oracle Unbreakable (Red Hat) all have supported GUI tools for system configuration. The free variants like Fedora have the same tools upstream and a community of users to help report problems and find solutions.
    So, if a user registers with LinuxMusicians.com and complains there that device X isn't recognized by the OS at all, you think they're going to walk him through a GUI based process? I might just put that to the test, but I don't think you'll like where it goes.

    Or perhaps offer a tiered pricing structure. Dunno - marketing people are better at this type of thing.
    Oh, so not only are they going to need to still have a support structure in place for the labyrinthine linux, but they'll also have to support multiple SKUs for packages with and without various levels of support. And they'll have to put infrastructure in place to support all of the hardware that comes bundled with Traktor. Riiiight.

    You sound like you're channeling your personal experiences. I understand that you're all for dumbing things down but honestly I prefer to give my digital brothers and sisters more credit. I can go to front page of this web site and learn how to solder, flash a VCI-100, turn a Wii guitar into a Traktor controller and more. Surely I and others who are stepping into or have already dove into the digital realm can open a terminal window. Big deal - sometimes I need to edit my Windows registry too.
    Please stop acting like you're some Robin Hood here. no one is stopping you from being as arcane as you want. You asked why Traktor in Linux is not viable. Several people have answered your question on multiple forums. It's easy for you to argue when you have absolutely NO visibility of what it takes to support a DJ product.

    Hmm, maybe I'll grid a couple of tracks while my compiler builds the Mixxx beta.
    Irony... table for one... Table for irony...

    not by a product manager who isn't willing to take a bet.
    It costs companies MONEY to take those bets. They have boards to answer to, and have to be able to demonstrate viability and a return on investment. It's easy for you to take shots at Tobias (or was that for me?) when you are clueless.

    Again, the BEST place for *nix DJ products to come from is the *nix community. They have the freedom to develop on their own timeline, and they can focus on making the application good without worrying about all the other stuff that comes with a monetized product. Instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, you need to be taking this energy and putting it into helping developers like Mixxx make their product better.

  8. #28
    Retired DJTT Moderator DvlsAdvct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nem0nic View Post
    Irony... table for one... Table for irony...
    I must admit

    I lol'd.

    I'd add something but I think between Karlos and nem0nic it's all been said with far greater authority than I could. Regardless, +1 post count!
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  9. #29
    Tech Guru Chilly's Avatar
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    I don't even know how this is even still being argued.

    You really think that people who can't even figure out how a tsi operates (check back in this thread for a user who's first post was about that) can seriously install, configure, run, and troubleshoot a program across different flavors of an OS?

    Really?

    "I'm so Linux smart. I can set file permissions. Uhm how do I use modifiers?"

  10. #30
    DJTT Moderator bloke Karlos Santos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly View Post
    "I'm so Linux smart. I can set file permissions. Uhm how do I use modifiers?"
    Done. Anyone for coffee.

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