The Pull of "Industry Standard"

[guiltyblade]

The majority of the places I have ever played at have had a DJM 500-900. Either that or its some lounge with a crappy numark mixer. I have never once seen an A&H mixer in the booth. So I did what everyone else does I bought cdjs and a djm, and I don't regret the decision one bit. I'm all for other equipment, but for buying into something I wanted to make sure I knew my way around pio's gear. This isn't a go pio post or anything either, if A&H were in all the booths I'd probably go that route.

I know when I'm on some other weird gear I definitely play pretty conservative maybe messing around here and there, but not much.

I am working on upgrading my DJM 700 to a 900 soon to get some of the onboard effects that are new with it.

[geminimech]

A Delay is a Delay. A Flanger a flanger and so on.

Parameters for effects are generally the same across most mixers with effects built in. Once you spend a minute or two determining how to manipulate those effects, I can't see why you're going to have an issue, or be less creative with how you ruin your track. As far as Xone: 4 bands, you may have to adjust, but you can't be paralyzed by the fact you don't have hi and lo mids, and I doubt anyone that has used an EQ has become any worse, or less expressive by switching from one format to the other.

Most people have certain effects that they latch onto most, and a majority of those are represented in mixers that include effects. Just take a minute to get used to the differences of the parameters included in one mixer vs the other (resonance, feedback, frequency, etc.), and buy what you can afford.

I think people make too much of familiarity with mixers and cd players, unless you rely on equipment because you use a specific format (eg. Rekordbox analyzed USB sticks).

[zimfella]

I ended up going for club standard. Here in Brighton that's either a xone 92 or 62. So i bought a 62. I want to be comfortable when i play out and give the best performance possible with gear i know. i would hate to come from 3 band eq's to suddenly have to use 4band. That's a recipe for disaster

[guiltyblade]

A Delay is a Delay. A Flanger a flanger and so on.

Parameters for effects are generally the same across most mixers with effects built in. Once you spend a minute or two determining how to manipulate those effects, I can't see why you're going to have an issue, or be less creative with how you ruin your track. As far as Xone: 4 bands, you may have to adjust, but you can't be paralyzed by the fact you don't have hi and lo mids, and I doubt anyone that has used an EQ has become any worse, or less expressive by switching from one format to the other.

Most people have certain effects that they latch onto most, and a majority of those are represented in mixers that include effects. Just take a minute to get used to the differences of the parameters included in one mixer vs the other (resonance, feedback, frequency, etc.), and buy what you can afford.

I think people make too much of familiarity with mixers and cd players, unless you rely on equipment because you use a specific format (eg. Rekordbox analyzed USB sticks).

Sorry dude but thats way off. A gater on traktor does not sound the same as a trans effect on a pio. Nor do the filters. Or the echos or flangers. They might be the same idea but how those companies tweak them can really sound vastly different. even full eq kills vs none, reverbs, crush, roll. All have distinct sounds on pio gear vs A&H gear vs traktor etc. You have to play with the gear long enough to know the tendencies of that gear.

Navigating through a CDJ 2000 is a much different experience even from navigating a cdj 800. When you know when jog tension you like, what tempo range you want, how to use certain features, it makes a difference. For instance CDJ 400s have effects built in, you could utilize then well if you weren't really familiar with how to use them, unless you feel like butchering a set.

[no_rex4u]

i personally don't have the moeny for any pio gear. in any aspect of music creation, or playing, i have found that just because you don't have an industry standard piece of equipment doesn't mean that it won't sound good. im going from my american audio vms4 (which is flawless) to their cd players (mostly because i can't afford pio's) i have found that in the end its all about how comfortable you are with equipment. and currently i am looking for a multi format cd player that can double as a midi controller, and a mixer that can double as either an interface, and/or a midi controller.

[geminimech]

Sorry dude but thats way off. A gater on traktor does not sound the same as a trans effect on a pio. Nor do the filters. Or the echos or flangers. They might be the same idea but how those companies tweak them can really sound vastly different. even full eq kills vs none, reverbs, crush, roll. All have distinct sounds on pio gear vs A&H gear vs traktor etc. You have to play with the gear long enough to know the tendencies of that gear.

Navigating through a CDJ 2000 is a much different experience even from navigating a cdj 800. When you know when jog tension you like, what tempo range you want, how to use certain features, it makes a difference. For instance CDJ 400s have effects built in, you could utilize then well if you weren't really familiar with how to use them, unless you feel like butchering a set.

I never said they sound the same. Not even CLOSE. But I have the same choices on my Zero4 to manipulate an effects processor as I do in Traktor, and they do, generally, the EXACT same thing. So there is no discomfort moving from one to the other, and because I don't use the Zero4's more than Traktors effects, doesn't mean I can't get comfortable in a matter of minutes.

If you tie your ability to mix to hardware, then fine. More power to you. But I don't feel like that's the rule but the exception.

I switched to this setup from a DJM-400, and any discomfort I felt in mixing was quickly alleviated in 5 minutes, once I understood how they worked. I understand if you want to be comfortable with the gear, but it's not a requirement to sound good. Things feel different, I'll absolutely concede that, but just because it feels different than what you're accustomed to shouldn't mean you can't use it.

[The Mighty FV]

i personally don't have the moeny for any pio gear. in any aspect of music creation, or playing, i have found that just because you don't have an industry standard piece of equipment doesn't mean that it won't sound good. im going from my american audio vms4 (which is flawless) to their cd players (mostly because i can't afford pio's) i have found that in the end its all about how comfortable you are with equipment. and currently i am looking for a multi format cd player that can double as a midi controller, and a mixer that can double as either an interface, and/or a midi controller.

This topic isn't about Pioneer sounding better because it costs more.

My set-up is identical to the set-ups I play on across the World. Out of 100 gigs, around 95 of them will be on 2 x Pioneer CDJ1000 mk2/3 or Pioneer CDJ2000 and a DJM800/900.

When I spend hours learning not only the effects, but the distance between faders, the range of the EQ, the feel of the faders and way they move - I want to know the things I have practiced can be instantly transferred to the booth and I can focus on what is important; the music.

I like to think of it like a racing car driver - do they practice in different cars and then sit in a different one when 'proper' races come along? I think not.

That is just my take on things, obviously everyone has their own feelings on this matter - but as a professional I want the standard I'm going to face week-in week-out.

[Kaek]

I like to think of it like a racing car driver - do they practice in different cars and then sit in a different one when 'proper' races come along? I think not.

That is just my take on things, obviously everyone has their own feelings on this matter - but as a professional I want the standard I'm going to face week-in week-out.

I can see where you are coming from here and yes that is a good reason to have "industry standard" gear.

I myself like to be versatile, I like to have a go on all equipment so that I feel comfortable using whatever is placed in front of me rather than being awkward if something else is there instead.

[geminimech]

This topic isn't about Pioneer sounding better because it costs more.

My set-up is identical to the set-ups I play on across the World. Out of 100 gigs, around 95 of them will be on 2 x Pioneer CDJ1000 mk2/3 or Pioneer CDJ2000 and a DJM800/900.

When I spend hours learning not only the effects, but the distance between faders, the range of the EQ, the feel of the faders and way they move - I want to know the things I have practiced can be instantly transferred to the booth and I can focus on what is important; the music.

I like to think of it like a racing car driver - do they practice in different cars and then sit in a different one when 'proper' races come along? I think not.

That is just my take on things, obviously everyone has their own feelings on this matter - but as a professional I want the standard I'm going to face week-in week-out.

I can appreciate that. Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way, and while your comparison isn't necessarily apples to apples, I get your point. At the same time, I'm sure you would agree that if you started on something less than a 1000mk3, it doesn't mean that you were so blown away the first time you saw it that you couldn't operate one.

[dope]

It's fun because it sounds like you totally misunderstood what we said no_rex4u.

i have found that just because you don't have an industry standard piece of equipment doesn't mean that it won't sound good.

We never said that industry standard was better gear, and that it sounded better.
But if you are not used to the equipment you use at the club, because what you have at home is different, it won't sound as good as when you practice. Which is a shame given the fact that at the club you have a crowd, while at home you're alone.

in the end its all about how comfortable you are with equipment.

Exactly. And to be confortable with the way a mixer works, to know it inside out and to be aware of all the tips and tricks (i.e. the example of echo on the DJM 900 said above) the best thing is to own that mixer at home.


That's the purpose of the thread. Even if "industry standard" gear (especially mixers in our case) is not the best available, and is super expensive, would you buy it for home use, so that you can be trained and aware of what you're in front of in the booth ?
Or on the other hand would you prefer to buy some better gear, and practice on it, knowing this practice is kind of useless since you'll never have that mixer in a club ?

That's the dilema here.


PS : kind of a thread hijack but now that i find myself discussing the topic here, i pretty much convinced myself to buy a pioneer mixer.
anyone tried the 850 ? do you think it's worth it ?
I got an audio 10 so I don't need a 900 for it's built-in soundcard, but are the other additional features (compared to a 800/850) worth the money spent ?