Smart Mixing Traktor With Ableton(PC) - Mac comments also welcome
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  1. #1
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    Default Smart Mixing Traktor With Ableton(PC) - Mac comments also welcome

    If you missed the blog post here it is - http://www.djtechtools.com/2008/04/0...-with-ableton/

    I invite PC users to please help with two things-

    1) Help find a Virtual Audio Cable alternative with lower latency - preferably free - this is not desperate but i believe there it potential room for improvement.

    2) A list of external Audio Devices with at least 4 independent channels (bare minimum for mixing) that have their own low latency virtual audio routing drivers. (This is where mac users might be able to help)

    Please post your findings in the comments on the above blog posting

  2. #2
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    1) Help find a Virtual Audio Cable alternative with lower latency - preferably free - this is not desperate but i believe there it potential room for improvement.

    2) A list of external Audio Devices with at least 4 independent channels (bare minimum for mixing) that have their own low latency virtual audio routing drivers. (This is where mac users might be able to help)
    Well i sorted out number 1, though number 2 remains open.

  3. #3
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    Has anyone looked at the ESI U46 DJ/SE/XL? The drivers include something called DirectWIRE which according to http://www.esi-audio.com/aboutus/technology/

    DirectWIRE is ESI's virtual digital patchbay that is layered between the physical hardware I/O channels and the driver interfaces to the various audio applications.

    It allows you to virtually route audio streams within different audio applications. In a simple panel you can connect the inputs and outputs of the different driver standards (MME, WDM/DirectSound, ASIO, GSIF) and the physical inputs of the hardware with each other with virtual audio cables. It does not matter what driver standard is used for playback and which one is used for recording. You want to record streaming data from an internet broadcasting (like RealAudio) in your audio editor (like SoundForge)? No problem. You want to record multiple audio channels from a surround DVD playback (e.g. from WinDVD) into your multichannel application (e.g. SONAR)? Just do it! Of course the most classical feature is that you can directly record the output signal from GigaStudio into your audio/MIDI sequencer.
    Now I'm a newbie but it sounds like what you are looking for with regards to 2). I was looking at buying a cheap SE but the site is now out of stock. The XL will apparently be available very soon.

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    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laz View Post
    Has anyone looked at the ESI U46 DJ/SE/XL? The drivers include something called DirectWIRE which according to http://www.esi-audio.com/aboutus/technology/



    Now I'm a newbie but it sounds like what you are looking for with regards to 2). I was looking at buying a cheap SE but the site is now out of stock. The XL will apparently be available very soon.
    Yup thats right
    I was hoping we could make a list of hardware but it never happened Turns out its actually quite difficult trying to find cards that support this as its not exactly a incredibly popular feature in sound cards.
    Thanks heaps for your contribution
    I am not sure if their drivers support virtual loop back's like JackDMP supports, we might have to get our hands one of these cards for review.

  5. #5
    Schreiberie Meister Afterhour Ali's Avatar
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    I have a big problem with the routing stuff:

    I own an ESI U46 DJ which has DirectWire. It can do the routing internally which should give even better results than JackDMP. I'm using WinXP Pro btw.

    There is just one problem: I can't use it's ASIO driver in both Traktor and Ableton. So I use the Windows-driver for Traktor and the ASIO one for Ableton. It works but the sound is pretty bad. It's better than with Virtual Audio Cable but still too bad to use it. Here are some screenshots of the setup:

    Trying to use ASIO in both results in:



    The normal setup with bad sound:

    The driver:



    In the list auf audio devices appear:
    ASIO 2.0 - ESI U46 DJ
    DS U46DJ Ch 123456 (which is useless cause when I select this and try to map the outputs, the only 2 options are also DJ U46DJ Ch 123456, so I can't select Channel 1/2 or 3/4 or 5/6).
    DS U46DJ Ch 34
    DS U46DJ Ch 56


    Last edited by Afterhour Ali; 11-05-2008 at 06:09 AM.

  6. #6
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    Thanks for your contribution, now we know to be weary of cards that boast audio routing capabilities.
    Ultimately it looks like JackDmp is the go for audio routing for sure - give it a shot and i am sure you will be pleased with the results.

    VAC works good too, but it has its issues - getting the latency settings right is difficult and sometimes impossible.
    Last edited by BentoSan; 11-05-2008 at 07:26 AM.

  7. #7
    Schreiberie Meister Afterhour Ali's Avatar
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    The U46DJ is an old model, the newer ones like U46XL or SE might work better but it's still a driver thing and the ESI driver suck ass (unstable, can't change bitrate etc.)

    I've set up JackDump successfully and will now see how far I can go with latency and if it's stable.

  8. #8
    Tech Guru B33SON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BentoSan View Post
    Thanks heaps for your contribution
    "heaps" ...lol. You just totally reminded me of Eagle vs Shark, you funny kiwi, you. Oh wait. You're not a kiwi. Ur an aussie. Same difference. LOL. JUST KIDDING!
    Last edited by B33SON; 11-05-2008 at 01:10 PM.
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    Tech Guru B33SON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HedgeHog View Post
    I have a big problem with the routing stuff:

    I own an ESI U46 DJ which has DirectWire. It can do the routing internally which should give even better results than JackDMP. I'm using WinXP Pro btw.

    There is just one problem: I can't use it's ASIO driver in both Traktor and Ableton. So I use the Windows-driver for Traktor and the ASIO one for Ableton.
    I have the same problem. I use WinXP Pro as well. Actually, sometimes I even have to go in and disable Midi on the sound card properties and restart before it will let me use it in the other application. Such a pain in the ass! The sound is also horrible when it routes into Ableton for me as well.
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  10. #10
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    i doubt the newer version of the card would yeild better results because it is still using the same routing software(DirectWIRE)

    Also - yay for this thread finally getting somewhere

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