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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Issue with midi sync between Traktor(Master) and Ableton(slave)

    Hi guys. Long time reader, first time poster.

    Here is my issue:

    I have Traktor Scratch pro 2, running off of a Macbook pro with A DDJ-T1 controller.

    I also have Ableton 8.2 running off a Macbook pro using an APC40 for clip launch.

    On our traktor setup, I have a M-Audio fast track pro outputting MIDI signal.

    On our Ableton setup, I have a Profire(firewire) audio card receiving MIDI signal.

    I have been able to successfully get this sync'd and working... kinda...

    This is where my problem is, When a track is started in traktor for the first time. I am required to press the master midi clock sync button to initiate the midi sync from traktor to Ableton(as expected). But after a duration of time, I am required to press this button again and again and again. The longer the clip plays, the more delayed it gets. After a while I am forced to again and again press the "Master Sync" button to re initialize the sync between the two devices.

    I find if I launch alot of clips quickly in ableton, the latency will happen faster and I will be forced to hit this sync button over and over. I have an acapella clip thats cut between 4 small clips, I like to perform and be able to mash the buttons on the fly for a cool groove with the vocals(makes for quite the performance tool). But after a duration, like I said before I am forced to go and hit the sync button in traktor to resync the clocks between both setups.

    I do notice that if somebody is playing with the DDJ device while I am launching clips the problem grows and the clips come off quicker.

    I went as far as to try a to replace the fasttrack pro(USB) with a firewire audio box(presonus firebox) with no luck. I see see a latency over time when launching clips.

    I've been struggling with this setup for a month now with no luck. I am almost ready to ditch the midi sync ability all together.

    Is this a known issue, does the traktor master midi clock have issues or is it not reliable?

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Tech Guru deevey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gokusupa View Post
    Hi guys. Long time reader, first time poster.

    Is this a known issue, does the traktor master midi clock have issues or is it not reliable?

    Thoughts?
    Traktors Midi clock isn't the issue, its Ableton's issue.

    Ableton has an issue being a Midi Slave, to the point of being unusable for any decent period of time even on the same machine.

    a) Is damn slow to update
    b) Auto-corrects the midi to the nearest whole bpm (or tries to), if there is a drift of more than 1 bpm, it just goes way out.

    Only solution I have found is to use Abe's as the Master to Traktor which works pretty well, but not 100% precise all of the time.

    If you do raise drop the tempo in Ableton by 2 or 3 bpm using this method it might take 2-3 seconds for Traktor to Catch up and adjust its pitch accordingly, not a big deal for constant tempo sets, but for variable ones a complete nightmare.

    General consensus seems to be map a fader as a pitch control in Ableton and do it old-school for anything more than constant 4/4 tracks.

    BTW thats running on the same machine, I believe over standard midi the issue would be even more drastic.
    Last edited by deevey; 09-19-2012 at 03:09 PM.

  3. #3
    Tech Convert maddiz's Avatar
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    I have this problem too when syncing my traktor master to ableton fx racks.
    Noticed it happens allot when you use 2 different midi controllers. 1 for traktor and 1 for ableton. When I freak around allot with the parameters on the x1 and uc-33 it seems like to delay the midi clock or just sends out a crumbly noice. This also happens when you load up a new track in a deck...
    Tried a feeded usb hub, this seems to reduce the problem ,but not makes it go away!
    Also tried to setup the uc-33 in a different midi channel so the notes won't interfear with eachother, didnt work..
    But when i play traktor to ableton with only the x1 controller, the problem goes away (if playing a steady bpm all the time..) I have not tried re-syncing when switching bpm...

    Im out of solutions... wth is this annoying problem!
    @Deevey, you do not have a solution to this problem with multiple midi signals?
    Nuuver

  4. #4
    Tech Guru deevey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddiz View Post
    @Deevey, you do not have a solution to this problem with multiple midi signals?
    Only issue I was aware of was the horrendous clock sync. I had used my old NanoKontrol, BCR and RMX running on both software's at the same time between without problems apart from the traktor > Ableton midi clock sync problem.

    There is another thread somewhere on here about multiple software/controllers. I Just use a solo APC40 now so cant help you with this.

    Does the issue persist if you are not syncing the clock as well, and which way are you syncing the clock, ableton > traktor or vice versa? .. also are you on Mac or PC? It could simply be a USB issue if your soundcards bandwidth is being split between midi controllers and audio, on occasions I've spontaneously noticed my USB hub gets picked up as USB 1.1 for some weird reason.

  5. #5
    Tech Convert maddiz's Avatar
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    I will search around for this and I hope to find some answers. thank you for your suggestion.

    Im using a Macbook 13" late 2008, snow leopard. UC-33 and a x1 both in a feeded hub and the soundcard audio4dj directly in the mac.
    Routing the audio from traktor to jackosx to ableton to external mixer. Traktor sends out midi clock directly to ableton.
    My uc-33 is only assigned to ableton fx racks and is only allowed to send midi notes to ableton. same goes for the x1 but then on traktor.

    The problem occurs when I play around with both the x1 and uc-33 at the same time (and stress the mac?) Or load up a new track in deck with the x1.
    In the beginning of the set its okay and I do not have to resync, but when time passes by, I notice that it happens more often. Sounds like a small fart and then plays the music proper again but the sync is delayed...

    Im not REALLY sure this is caused by multiple midi controllers. And I also think it's kinda odd. Could it have to do with caching? or something else?

    A friend of mine had this problem too when syncying his Miami (808 duplicate) to his ableton slave.. somehow when he stressed to much with fx, the midi clock reciever delays.. so... ableton sux recieving midi?
    Nuuver

  6. #6
    Tech Convert maddiz's Avatar
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    at gokusupa, try to sync both laptops with a ethernet crossover cable. you can send a sort of clock trough that and its far more stable then midi between two computers.
    Nuuver

  7. #7
    Tech Guru deevey's Avatar
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    ableton sux recieving midi?
    Ableton sucks as a clock slave, all I could suggest would be:

    1. Try using Ableton as a the Master and see if it sorts out your problem.
    2. Try manually with Traktor syncing without any clock source and see if it sorts out your problem.

    I'd be interested to hear if it does / doesn't

    you can send a sort of clock trough that and its far more stable then midi between two computers.
    Still midi though, and I have a stinking feeling that the clock is the issue with the setup.

  8. #8
    Tech Convert maddiz's Avatar
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    http://www.djtechtools.com/2012/09/3...eton-together/

    if you read the article he has a secret way to sync it properly.. still do not really understand whats he's suggesting tough
    Nuuver

  9. #9
    Tech Guru Patch's Avatar
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    MAD ZACK IS GENIUS

    I don't know how I missed that - but it might just change EVERYTHING. I'll be mapping a single slider on my UC-33e to a Simple Delay in free mode on MULTIPLE TRACKS IMMIEDIATELY.

    This is gonna be FUN.
    Performance: 2xTechnics 1200MK2, DJM 850, Dicers, Zomo MC-1000, Sony MDR-v700, Sony VAIO
    Production: Ableton Live 8 and a mouse, MOTU Ultralite, Sennheiser HD400, Sony VAIO

    Click HERE to D/L Free Tracks from Soundcloud!!!
    https://www.facebook.com/Patchdj

  10. #10
    Tech Convert maddiz's Avatar
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    the problem still occurs... its more stable now but when switching bpm, abletons metronome always has to catch op.
    last time i noticed that when after syncing, ableton hits about 1000.1.1 in play time,and then BEM! the sound output is going completely mad (stutters glitching clips you name it, it happens). after pressing the midi sync button in traktor like 5 times the sound output was going back to normal.. i mean wtf? everytime when you hit that sync button ableton starts at 1.1.1 again.

    also i noticed on deevey's advice, when you actually sync the clock manually, it still has to catch up, but is way faster with catching up the accurate bmp. funny thing is, you will still have to press sync button like you cue a track in 32step rule.
    I will assign a button to my x1 for syncing it manually. Then test it during a 2 hour living room set, let's see if it happens again.

    I will also try the MADZACK method after that, at first I did not had enough knowledge. Now I want to confirm my theory because what Patch said, he a genius and will resolve the issue I think.
    Nuuver

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