APC40 + APC20... mapping issue when trying to use clip launch buttons mapped to sends
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  1. #1
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    Default APC40 + APC20... mapping issue when trying to use clip launch buttons mapped to sends

    I want to see if someone can help me with this problem that seems quite difficult right now, but probably has a very simple solution.

    I used to use Ableton + the APC40 for live dub (reggae) mixing of audio tracks. BUT I do it in a different way than normal (which is very important to understanding my problem): I remap the clip launch buttons so that they turn sends on and off for a given track (sends A-E for track(fader) 1 are mapped to the 5 clip launch buttons above track 1). This allows me to do performance dub mixing which requires access to many sends that are organized the way they would be on an analog board - vertically in a line above the fader.

    That had been working fine, but I was getting frustrated with having only 8 tracks to dub out in any given song, so I picked up an APC20, thinking that if I have both of them, I can just give myself 16 tracks with 16 independently triggering send buttons (clip launch buttons). Problem is, the clip launch buttons on the APC 20 send the same midi note as the corresponding button on the APC40 - so when I map a clip launch button on the APC20 to send A on track 1, it does the exact same thing on the first track of the APC40 (track 9 in my set up).

    I've tried changing the APC20 to one of the 3 user modes... doesn't allow me to map these button independently (only affect the faders). I've even tried using Note mode on the APC20 hoping that would change the midi message that the buttons on the APC20 send out - no luck.

    Anyone have any ideas. Maybe I'll have to figure out how to use a midi translator program to do this (started to try this, but understanding midi code is no joke). But, it would be great if there's an easier solution that I'm overlooking.

    Many thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Tech Guru botstein's Avatar
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    1. Dub is awesome. Where are you located? I would probably come out to hear it / play with y'all.
    2. Could you upload a live set somewhere? I have APCs and could take a look.
    3. Do you use Max for Live? If you have it, there are some really great workarounds that you might like.

  3. #3
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    Note Mode on the APC20 *does* send out different notes than the regular button grid. you can use that for double mapping provided the APC20 has remote activated in MIDI preferences (should be on by default) - but doing it this way kinda sucks because Note Mode deactivates the LEDs (I have no idea why AKAI decided that would make sense rather than have them all glow red or something). switching between modes for such a basic thing sucks too, plus you will run out of triggers eventually because Note Mode has no switchable banks.

    so unless you own Max4Live, youíll have to use dummy clips (silent audio clips with envelopes) for the send levels of the given channel - but thatís not going to work perfectly unless youíre OK with:

    1) having only one send active per track at a time
    2) using one extra clip to deactivate all sends simultaneously

    Iíve created a liveset (I use the 8.4 beta so I assume you'll need either that or 8.3.3 to open it) to demonstrate dummy clip basics - go grab it at http://www.arkaei.com/sends.zip. remember to launch the "kill" clip first and then start the audio clip before you mess with the send activators! you would also have to start your liveset with a scene that contains only those "kill" clips.

    that is because all sends need to be at maximum for these envelopes to work properly. remember that in session view, a clip envelope is always relative to whatever the current maximum value of the given control is - so if you have your send level at -9db and your clip envelope for that send is at 100%, after launching the clip the send level won't exceed -9db because -9db is the current maximum. since you have to crank the sends up, you also need to bring them down initially using envelopes to avoid a mess.

    well, thatís all I can do for you at the moment, Iím really busy preparing for the BPM show but perhaps someone else will provide you with a better solution.
    Last edited by arkaei; 10-03-2012 at 10:02 PM.

  4. #4
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    Greetings. Many thanks Bostein & Arkei

    I'm located in St. Croix, Virgin Islands... and yes, I do have Max for Live as a trial - if I can use this to solve this problem, I will gladly purchase it... Haven't made any progress with that so far.

    Arkei, unfortunately the note mode method you described would not work for me because I would definitely need to be able to have more than one send active per track at a time - dubbing with only one send and a time per track would be very limiting for what I do with my sends.

    I've spent several days going back and forth with Ableton tech support (which is excellent). After discussing with 3 different reps and even having one access my computer remotely, the conclusion I got from Ableton was that it's just not possible to do what I am trying to do and still keep the LEDs' functionality. It's really a shame that no one thought of this double-mapping limitation when they designed the way APCs and Ableton talk to each other in midi-mapping. They gave me a solution (that would have been great had it allowed the LEDs on each button to come on...) It was taking the APC20 out of control surface mode and then setting up a midi channel with the APC as input, routing that midi channel through an IAC bus, and then changing that IAC bus midi channel to channel 2 instead of 1. But again, this method would not work for me because I need to see the LEDs lights come on or off when the buttons are pressed.

    So, if you or anyone else can think of a method using Max for Live I would love to hear it. I have also heard that using Bomes Midi Translator or Midi-pipe would work, but I haven't had any luck. Otherwise, maybe I'll just have to wait for Ableton to address this in an update (hopefully) and stick with my APC40 and 8 tracks for now... Give much thanks.

  5. #5
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    well, I gave it a shot as I said, I'm busy with BPM preparations so I can't look into that for you at the moment. I suggest you work your way through tutorials like this one:



    also, if you're ready to nerd out even more, check out this excellent blog: http://remotescripts.blogspot.de/201...k-classes.html

    hit me up again if you get stuck. I'll try to make some time, but please bear with me - I've got an insane schedule right now. maybe botstein has better resources he could share?

  6. #6
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    you can fix this without max for live by holding shift on the apc 20 and selecting one of the "user1, user2, user3" buttons

    oops: went back and realized you had addressed this. I use an apc80, but when i went back and re-read your post i had missed a few details

  7. #7
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    Default activating sends with apc button matrix

    Hi,

    I have been trying to figure out how to turn the sends on and off using the APC button matrix. how did you do it originally. I really cant figure it out.

    FYI I play dub also so I guess I will be doing exactly the same as you

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