running maschine with traktor, what's the point when you your can use an F1? - Page 2
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  1. #11
    Tech Mentor crakbot's Avatar
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    Most people I've seen using Maschine in their DJ setup don't really do that much. They may tap in a snare loop or kick loop. But it's really not even worth doing. I guess it just makes it more fun for the DJ but the music isn't really enhanced. Is someone really going to say, "wow, that basic snare loop he just tapped in is really rocking this club!"

    I think unless you are doing a Jeremy Ellis or Araabmuzik type of routine, you might as well just stick with an F1.

    I watched that video and I guess you had to be there. Seems like you could buy $100 worth of loops and put on that same show. Maybe it was the sound quality but all I heard were basic drum beats and a few fills.

    But in the end it's DJ'ing, do it however you want and what feels right. Some people will like it, some people won't.

  2. #12
    Tech Wizard deeflash's Avatar
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    it's really just up to preference, and if you're having fun, and you're paying attention to your crowd still, they should be having fun. If you're bored out of your mind just mixing from track a to track b and it shows, then nobody is gonna have fun.

    If you're mixing tunes, jamming on top of the tracks with basslines, stabs, kicks, snares, hats, vocal drops, etc, and having a blast, the crowd is gonna have a good time too.

    If someone brought a 909 or 808 with them would you say, "Why did you bring that? You could've just made a bunch of 909 loops and left it home." Or would you be stoked to see them play it like an instrument?

    It's all about expression, if you find it easier or more fun to prep loops and use an F1 then go for it. For me, I enjoy the fun of having a musical idea and making it happen on the fly. I just find so much inspiration while playing out and have moments where, "Oh it would be awesome to have a conga loop just at this part here..."
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  3. #13
    Tech Guru mostapha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sobi View Post
    Interesting. Can you elaborate your feelings on this a bit more?
    Last year I ended up dropping cash on Maschine because after toying around with a pirated copy of Ableton, I just felt like I couldn't wrap my head around it. I had full intentions of buying if I liked it, but for some reason, it just seemed a bit foreign to me. This is also after doing production in all hardware based studio (Roland XP-80, Korg MS 2000, Roland 303, and an MPC 2000XL [hence the perfect fit for Maschine for me] for years before hand though, so maybe that was an initial bit of culture shock for me. Either way, very interested to hear your view.
    Sure.

    Maschine is fantastic. Fantastic. It's also just a groove box. I love mine. I wouldn't give it up for the world. But it basically doesn't have any level meters that are worth anything anywhere in it. It's effects are sub-par. It's routing is limited. And it doesn't have that many slots for effects, especially when you consider that "mixing" inside machine means that you lose one slot per sound, one per group, and one on your master…just to manage levels (and maybe also do EQ if that's where you want your EQ in the chain and have the right plugin). Plus, there's no way to see more than 1 meter at a time when you're working that way, which is less than ideal to the point of being a huge PITA.

    Basically, using your studio as an example, it's a great replacement to the MPC. And since it can host plugins, it replaces the synths as well. I think it just falls apart at also being a mixer. Part of that is that it barely knows what mono is. Another part of it is that NI really seems just not to believe in level meters that actually say anything.

    Run into a DAW, and it's phenomenal. It's just not a complete studio. Whether you like other daws or not is a separate issue, but they can all be full studios in and of themselves (minus IO, of course). Basically, a whole host of design choices culminate to make it really easy to compose and mix something entirely in Maschine that just winds up a too-loud, muddy, overdriven mess. And it's harder to do than just doing it right in something else.

    I LOVE Maschine + a DAW (I use Pro Tools) better than anything else I've used. But I'd drop Maschine before I'd drop the DAW for working in a studio. For use live………I think it's good enough as long as nothing goes wrong with your set, but I'd still prefer to run it through something else (Live, Pro Tools, or a console) because it'd be faster to change things if you let Maschine concentrate on what it does well (sequencing, "creating", and effecting sounds) and use something else that actually mixes well instead of trying to get Maschine to do both.

    Quote Originally Posted by crakbot View Post
    Most people I've seen using Maschine in their DJ setup don't really do that much. They may tap in a snare loop or kick loop. But it's really not even worth doing. I guess it just makes it more fun for the DJ but the music isn't really enhanced. Is someone really going to say, "wow, that basic snare loop he just tapped in is really rocking this club!"
    The thing about it is that it doesn't fit with every kind of music. For some styles, a few extra drum hits will change the groove of a song in an interesting way.

    If you listen to what's mainstream now (dubstep, electro, etc.), you're right. And if you spin the same music I usually see controllerists spinning, there's no point. If you're a drummer (or have a very good sense of rhythm) and are spinning the right music…a snare groove can dramatically change mood.

    But, honestly, I think I can say the same about every single technique that I've heard, read about, tried, seen, etc. on DJTT. IMnsHO, it takes a lot of skill and a lot of preparation to add anything to just playing the right track at the right time and have it actually better than the set would have been without the tricks.

    And most of the time when I see things like Hawtin's use of Maschine or a lot of cue points and loops, I find myself thinking "well……if you had to do that to keep my attention, why didn't you just play a better track?"

    So, the point of having Maschine set up to do things like that is to capitalize on being a good enough musician to take something that was already going to be awesome, and push it just that little bit farther. If you do it right, people won't know you've done anything at all. And there are very few people I've seen pull it off.

  4. #14
    Tech Mentor crakbot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostapha View Post
    The thing about it is that it doesn't fit with every kind of music. For some styles, a few extra drum hits will change the groove of a song in an interesting way.

    If you listen to what's mainstream now (dubstep, electro, etc.), you're right. And if you spin the same music I usually see controllerists spinning, there's no point. If you're a drummer (or have a very good sense of rhythm) and are spinning the right music…a snare groove can dramatically change mood.
    I think that's a great point. The genre has a lot to do with it and like you said, a lot of DJTT forum threads get derailed because people come form different genre viewpoints. Something for me to keep in mind when I reply to threads.

  5. #15
    Tech Mentor Scaper7's Avatar
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    I'm using X1, F1 and Maschine controlling a 100% traktor internal mix. Maschine is a Traktor controller as well as synced 'Maschine'. Remix decks and Maschine have differences. Maschine has detailed swing, groove and mix control you don't get with remix decks. Maschine grooves can be tailored to any tempo and feel ... elements muted, tuned etc. Maschine is covering all kinds of duties from groovebox/drum machine to headphone/preview/FX control/Filters in my setup ... too numerous to mention. It all works. F1 is great with the remix decks and also extremely handy in MIDI mode. All 3 controllers compliment each other well (with a little custom mapping). I have fun with this rig. Just the remix decks and maschine can keep me amused for hours. The combination is a very deep groove machine with all sorts of possibilities to explore. Maschine is the ideal tool for creating custom Remix loops and sets. It's so deep I haven't begun to even scratch the surface. I've only just moved onto a new laptop that has the grunt to deal with it all. Almost scared to install Komplete on the new system. I may not sleep for days .... weeks ....

  6. #16
    Tech Mentor beisi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crakbot View Post
    Most people I've seen using Maschine in their DJ setup don't really do that much. They may tap in a snare loop or kick loop. But it's really not even worth doing. I guess it just makes it more fun for the DJ but the music isn't really enhanced. Is someone really going to say, "wow, that basic snare loop he just tapped in is really rocking this club!"
    Regarding live use of the step sequencer that is mainly my point, it looks awesome but how much does it really add? and is it worth the extra hassle... and indeed it does seem lend its self better to techno/tech house/minimal kind music not dubelectromoombahstepcore etc.

    Have seen some guys rocking them in small club/bar gigs and thought it twas a little bit overkill when I can see how stuff that they are doing could be done pretty easily without sacrificing much on an F1.

    That being said, one thing I am interested to know is, are people actually using it in place of a remix deck somehow?

    i.e. start looping sample, stop looping sample, quant on, quant off, grab sample from what is playing on a traktor deck and then do something with it on the fly... It would be pretty cool if one could pull off some sort of an on-the-fly sliced 'grab' of the a couple of bars and then fire them off in a quantized fashion either looping or as one shots (like in traktor when you hit hot cues or trigger samples with the 'quant' function on). Guess that would require some fancy audio routing and lots of computing powwaaa...

  7. #17
    Tech Guru botstein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooterADAM View Post
    That being said, one thing I am interested to know is, are people actually using it in place of a remix deck somehow?

    i.e. start looping sample, stop looping sample, quant on, quant off, grab sample from what is playing on a traktor deck and then do something with it on the fly... It would be pretty cool if one could pull off some sort of an on-the-fly sliced 'grab' of the a couple of bars and then fire them off in a quantized fashion either looping or as one shots (like in traktor when you hit hot cues or trigger samples with the 'quant' function on). Guess that would require some fancy audio routing and lots of computing powwaaa...
    It requires routing, but not that much power at all.

    What you're describing is super easy in Ableton - with an audio track with the Audio From option set to the deck you're sampling from - it's easy to punch in and punch out and trigger the loop/one shot you've grabbed from the track all quantised. It would be perfect with the APC/Launchpad style script NI put out for the mkII (and the original?) or, you know, an APC.

    One could do this if he split routed his deck's output to Maschine's inputs... I think, depending on what you would want and what your setup is, it would be different case by case.

    You could certainly record to a pad and then play it back - I don't know about doing that in exactly the same way as the Ableton case, but you could recompose with the step sequencer.

  8. #18
    Tech Mentor teambama's Avatar
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    You can have 16 samples in maschine with different BPM's/speeds & they will play correctly. Pretty sure you cant do that with the F1?
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  9. #19
    Tech Guru diezdiazgiant's Avatar
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    im going to sound like a fan boy saying this, as this has been my favorite purchase this year and i know ive chipped in on some threads to sing its praise - but the only drum machine ive ever had fun using over some playing decks has been a machinedrum. 16 step programming with only a one bar pattern, really easy to vibe with turning on and off step triggers to control the direction you want build things up or down. messing with maschine or an mpc just felt like it was easier to record the loops like you said. keep mind never done a mix like this but its been closest thing ive had to feeling a good vibe bringing in a drum machine over a playing deck

  10. #20
    Tech Guru diezdiazgiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teambama View Post
    You can have 16 samples in maschine with different BPM's/speeds & they will play correctly. Pretty sure you cant do that with the F1?
    um - maschine has no realtime timestretch or gridding? think its the other way around

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