Learning curve/progression?
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  1. #1
    Tech Student Pseuderity's Avatar
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    Default Learning curve/progression?

    Hello DJTT, I am very inexperienced in the DJ'ing community and would love to get started mixing and mashing up songs effectively. I have an S2 and a Midi Fighter Pro, but it seems the learning curve is fairly steep in regards to mixing smoothly. I know the basics of Traktor and how to use all the controls on my S2, but I feel that im missing some basic knowledge. For example, I have not been using the high, mid, and low knobs at all and I try to mix songs together in the middle and usually end up making a mess of things.

    Is there a set progression in which to learn? Like 1. Mixing, 2. Effects, etc. etc. How do you know when to use the high, mid and low controls, when are effects a good idea? Every time I use them they just make the song sound awful. How did you guys start out, which key elements should I learn and why? Any advice would be much appreciated. Oh and the midi fighter is really strange. I can't stop it from automatically adjusting my dry/wet settings every time I hit a button.

    Much thanks for taking your time to read/help.

    -Asa
    Proud owner of an S2!!! (still haven't figured it out yet)
    I'm a total beginner. Take it easy on meh!

  2. #2
    Tech Guru mostapha's Avatar
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    These are my opinions only. And I'm not a famous DJ, so perhaps take them with a grain of salt…but they're based on my shortcomings as much as my strengths. It's advice I wish I'd heard when I started spinning.

    Step 1 is to immerse yourself in the culture as much as you can. All of the young guys I see getting anywhere with DJing in their 20s have been sneaking into clubs since they were 14. If you don't know how a club works; if you can't identify cliques by looking around a room; if you can't spot who's a bartender on their off night and who's heavily involved in the scene……you have no chance of controlling a floor or knowing what music is going to work. Start learning that first.

    Step 2 is to learn to build really good playlists. Yes, dance music has long (usually boring) intros and outros. Tough. Do it first for situations that you know well (commutes, long car rides, class, parties, hanging out w/ friends, etc.) and do it for more situations as you learn them. Do it with whatever music you have and know…don't buy new stuff yet unless you hear it somewhere and like it.

    Step 3 is to start learning which genres/styles you really like, then learn how to shop for them. Unless you specifically want to play top40 or want to sound like everybody else, don't look at charts of any kind. We all fall into that trap because it's just plain overwhelming how much music is out there (and how much of it is terrible) and it's an easy way out……and sometimes you need a couple of the top 5 songs from your genre. But they shouldn't be the core of your set. If you realize the entire beatport top10 for your genre (or top100 for the site) is all in your active playlist/crate/whatever, then they damn well better have been there before they charted…otherwise, you're doing it wrong.

    Step 4 is to learn phrase matching and song structure. I don't care if you just slam a crossfader over and the songs are going the completely wrong tempo, if you do it at the right time, it sounds a hell of a lot better than an iTunes playlist. I've heard some very good hip hop DJs who spent at least part of their sets doing exactly that……without ever touching a pitch fader because it didn't matter. Obviously, there are stylistic differences, but I still think it's an important step.

    Step 5–assuming you want to spin anything derived from house/techno and not just hip hop–is learning to beat match. I don't care if you do it with beatgrids and sync or pitch faders. I don't care if it's on turntables, CDJs, or controllers. But you need to be able to hold tracks together without flaming for a while. Depending on the genre, it's not uncommon to have tracks playing together for minutes at a time. But just work on technical proficiency at first, either setting beat/warp markers or using the pitch fader with your genre/style of choice.

    Note: it's okay to like different genres of music, but know where the hard separations lie. 118 BPM classic/deep house and 150 BPM psytrance probably shouldn't be in the same set, for example.

    Step 6 is to put 4 and 5 together. This is where actually counting comes in. Once you know when a track should take over (when you did the slam in step 4), you have to figure out how to count backwards from that point to somewhere you can start it in time…and then figure out where that start point needs to go in the outgoing track so that it'll drop at the right time. If you do that with loops and hot cues, you're just short-changing yourself in the long run.

    Step 7 is to learn how to alter #4 to affect the "mood" the transition imparts. If there's a "perfect" place to drop a new track and it just kind of sinks in, there's a good chance that bringing it in somewhere else will either raise or lower the intensity of your party.

    Step 8 is to learn to respond to the crowd using #7 and take them where they want to go.

    Step 9 is to add EQs, but only when necessary. Use EQs as an effect when you need to change the energy a specific way and the tracks aren't cooperating. But, really, I've found it's usually better to just pick a different song if you have the time. In my last 10 hours of mixing, I've touched an EQ knob………8 or 10 times. Most of the time, it was the mid control on the outgoing track to make room for early "end of intro" vocals on the incoming one. The rest of the time, It's to boost mids to keep a 2-track snare/hat groove going a bit longer…or some other small part that I wasn't ready to fade out yet despite the rest of the track needing to go. Frankly, if I were building a mixer today, the only EQ knob it'd have is the high-mid control off the xone:62/92……that knob is incredibly powerful.

    Step 10 is to add effects, but only when they really add to the experience of your mix. If you ever touch a beatmasher, you better have a damn good reason. Frankly, and with full respect for what he's done for the community, I blame Ean Golden for most of the shit mixes I've had to listen to.

    Most of the time, a simple delay is more than enough to give your mix that little extra to go from awesome to extraordinary. But, that's what you're doing with effects…turning awesome into extraordinary. No matter what you do with effects, you can't turn crap into good with them. The same thing goes for sample decks, remix decks, drum machines, groove boxes, etc.. If the production stuff is the core of your performance of your own original music, then you're not DJing anymore and most of this doesn't apply the same way. But, I digress.

    Step 11 is to use all this knowledge and experience to actually do something different. Maybe it's incorporating live production. Maybe it's paying someone else to fire off a bunch of fireworks while you spin. Maybe it's helping to create a new genre. Something that actually takes you out of the realm of "just another damn good DJ" and into the realm of being your own artist. Very few ever get that far.

    And all the while, you should be meeting people, cultivating relationships, building a network of friends, supporters, and fans……but that's the part that I really suck at, so I won't offer advice there.

    I really wish I'd learned it in that order instead of the haphazard way I did. It probably would have been longer until the first time I played in front of people, but I would have been less confused when it happened. The other advantage of learning this way is that it gives you more time to save up for equipment. You should be able to put on a coherent set without buying pitch faders (or sync buttons). Whether it's 2 instances of winamp, the lite version of Live that's free, a pair of old, beaten-up iPods……you can learn more than half of it without spending much money at all. And when you get to that point–if you're serious about it–you will hopefully have saved enough money (from having more time and not buying crap) that you can stretch a little farther than the "I kinda want to try it but don't want to go balls deep because I don't know if I'll like it" mindset that a lot of beginners have.

    If I'd done it that way, chances are the first gear I would have bought would have been CDJ-1000s (when they were new) and a Rane. I'd probably still be using them, and I might not have spent countless money on crap I sold at a loss. Though, thankfully, I listened to people and started with 1200s……so it wasn't as bad as it could have been……I just kept getting suckered in by technology that was ultimately irrelevant.

    Anyway…some of these, you've probably already started at least to some degree. And I'd imagine it's okay to jump around some. If you want to learn to beat-match first so you don't have to listen to gigantic train wrecks when you're critiquing your own recorded mixes, cool. But keep in mind where you actually are and don't bother getting too far ahead. And with that last point about money, give some serious thought to how you want to learn.

    And I'm really not kidding about waiting that long for EQs and effects. Swapping basslines sounds stupid most of the time, and it's unnecessary if you watch your levels and your phrase matching properly. The Breaks mix from 2007 on my mixcloud (in my sig) was done without EQs………or level controls…all 3 channels were wide-open for the entire mix. Yes, I did it in Live. I don't think that hurts my point, because I didn't actually do anything to mix the songs other than hit play at the right times, warp all the songs before hand, and cut up a couple of them in a way that would be easy to replicate on CDJs (though not vinyl).
    Last edited by mostapha; 11-26-2012 at 03:39 AM.

  3. #3
    Tech Mentor Lineypirate's Avatar
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    Everything detailed above. It's excellent advice and I wish I had learned like that.

    If I can echo one specific point from the above though it would be creating your own unique playlists / set programming. I started DJ'ing 10 years ago, and can beatmatch / "mix" on Vinyl, CDJs, software... You name it. But what I always struggle with, even after being a resident is set programming. All because I learned how to "mix" first, and thought that it was enough to go on.

    Another point I'd echo is the importance of learning the structure of your tracks as well. I used to "teach" DJ'ing to a class weekly and even though lots of the students could match a beat, it was always harder to teach them when to start mixing in the next track.

    Plus, putting more thought into what you play and when you play it will ultimately make you stand out from the thousands of generic Top 40esque DJ's out there.

    Although the best advice I could give is no matter where you start or how you progress.... Keep enjoying it!
    TSP 2.6.1 | 2 x CDJ 2000 Nexus | 2 x Technics 1210 MK5 | Denon DNX-1600 | Behringer DDM4000 w/Infinium X1 | MBP | A&H Xone K2 | Akai APC 40 & MPK 25 | Novation Launchpad | Pioneer HDJ 2000 & 500 | Audio 8 DJ | Ableton Live 9

    http://www.mixcloud.com/lineypirate/http://www.soundcloud.com/lineypirate/

  4. #4
    Tech Student Pseuderity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostapha View Post
    These are my opinions only. And I'm not a famous DJ, so perhaps take them with a grain of salt…but they're based on my shortcomings as much as my strengths. It's advice I wish I'd heard when I started spinning.

    Step 1 is to immerse yourself in the culture as much as you can. All of the young guys I see getting anywhere with DJing in their 20s have been sneaking into clubs since they were 14. If you don't know how a club works; if you can't identify cliques by looking around a room; if you can't spot who's a bartender on their off night and who's heavily involved in the scene……you have no chance of controlling a floor or knowing what music is going to work. Start learning that first.

    Step 2 is to learn to build really good playlists. Yes, dance music has long (usually boring) intros and outros. Tough. Do it first for situations that you know well (commutes, long car rides, class, parties, hanging out w/ friends, etc.) and do it for more situations as you learn them. Do it with whatever music you have and know…don't buy new stuff yet unless you hear it somewhere and like it.

    Step 3 is to start learning which genres/styles you really like, then learn how to shop for them. Unless you specifically want to play top40 or want to sound like everybody else, don't look at charts of any kind. We all fall into that trap because it's just plain overwhelming how much music is out there (and how much of it is terrible) and it's an easy way out……and sometimes you need a couple of the top 5 songs from your genre. But they shouldn't be the core of your set. If you realize the entire beatport top10 for your genre (or top100 for the site) is all in your active playlist/crate/whatever, then they damn well better have been there before they charted…otherwise, you're doing it wrong.

    Step 4 is to learn phrase matching and song structure. I don't care if you just slam a crossfader over and the songs are going the completely wrong tempo, if you do it at the right time, it sounds a hell of a lot better than an iTunes playlist. I've heard some very good hip hop DJs who spent at least part of their sets doing exactly that……without ever touching a pitch fader because it didn't matter. Obviously, there are stylistic differences, but I still think it's an important step.

    Step 5–assuming you want to spin anything derived from house/techno and not just hip hop–is learning to beat match. I don't care if you do it with beatgrids and sync or pitch faders. I don't care if it's on turntables, CDJs, or controllers. But you need to be able to hold tracks together without flaming for a while. Depending on the genre, it's not uncommon to have tracks playing together for minutes at a time. But just work on technical proficiency at first, either setting beat/warp markers or using the pitch fader with your genre/style of choice.

    Note: it's okay to like different genres of music, but know where the hard separations lie. 118 BPM classic/deep house and 150 BPM psytrance probably shouldn't be in the same set, for example.

    Step 6 is to put 4 and 5 together. This is where actually counting comes in. Once you know when a track should take over (when you did the slam in step 4), you have to figure out how to count backwards from that point to somewhere you can start it in time…and then figure out where that start point needs to go in the outgoing track so that it'll drop at the right time. If you do that with loops and hot cues, you're just short-changing yourself in the long run.

    Step 7 is to learn how to alter #4 to affect the "mood" the transition imparts. If there's a "perfect" place to drop a new track and it just kind of sinks in, there's a good chance that bringing it in somewhere else will either raise or lower the intensity of your party.

    Step 8 is to learn to respond to the crowd using #7 and take them where they want to go.

    Step 9 is to add EQs, but only when necessary. Use EQs as an effect when you need to change the energy a specific way and the tracks aren't cooperating. But, really, I've found it's usually better to just pick a different song if you have the time. In my last 10 hours of mixing, I've touched an EQ knob………8 or 10 times. Most of the time, it was the mid control on the outgoing track to make room for early "end of intro" vocals on the incoming one. The rest of the time, It's to boost mids to keep a 2-track snare/hat groove going a bit longer…or some other small part that I wasn't ready to fade out yet despite the rest of the track needing to go. Frankly, if I were building a mixer today, the only EQ knob it'd have is the high-mid control off the xone:62/92……that knob is incredibly powerful.

    Step 10 is to add effects, but only when they really add to the experience of your mix. If you ever touch a beatmasher, you better have a damn good reason. Frankly, and with full respect for what he's done for the community, I blame Ean Golden for most of the shit mixes I've had to listen to.

    Most of the time, a simple delay is more than enough to give your mix that little extra to go from awesome to extraordinary. But, that's what you're doing with effects…turning awesome into extraordinary. No matter what you do with effects, you can't turn crap into good with them. The same thing goes for sample decks, remix decks, drum machines, groove boxes, etc.. If the production stuff is the core of your performance of your own original music, then you're not DJing anymore and most of this doesn't apply the same way. But, I digress.

    Step 11 is to use all this knowledge and experience to actually do something different. Maybe it's incorporating live production. Maybe it's paying someone else to fire off a bunch of fireworks while you spin. Maybe it's helping to create a new genre. Something that actually takes you out of the realm of "just another damn good DJ" and into the realm of being your own artist. Very few ever get that far.

    And all the while, you should be meeting people, cultivating relationships, building a network of friends, supporters, and fans……but that's the part that I really suck at, so I won't offer advice there.

    I really wish I'd learned it in that order instead of the haphazard way I did. It probably would have been longer until the first time I played in front of people, but I would have been less confused when it happened. The other advantage of learning this way is that it gives you more time to save up for equipment. You should be able to put on a coherent set without buying pitch faders (or sync buttons). Whether it's 2 instances of winamp, the lite version of Live that's free, a pair of old, beaten-up iPods……you can learn more than half of it without spending much money at all. And when you get to that point–if you're serious about it–you will hopefully have saved enough money (from having more time and not buying crap) that you can stretch a little farther than the "I kinda want to try it but don't want to go balls deep because I don't know if I'll like it" mindset that a lot of beginners have.

    If I'd done it that way, chances are the first gear I would have bought would have been CDJ-1000s (when they were new) and a Rane. I'd probably still be using them, and I might not have spent countless money on crap I sold at a loss. Though, thankfully, I listened to people and started with 1200s……so it wasn't as bad as it could have been……I just kept getting suckered in by technology that was ultimately irrelevant.

    Anyway…some of these, you've probably already started at least to some degree. And I'd imagine it's okay to jump around some. If you want to learn to beat-match first so you don't have to listen to gigantic train wrecks when you're critiquing your own recorded mixes, cool. But keep in mind where you actually are and don't bother getting too far ahead. And with that last point about money, give some serious thought to how you want to learn.

    And I'm really not kidding about waiting that long for EQs and effects. Swapping basslines sounds stupid most of the time, and it's unnecessary if you watch your levels and your phrase matching properly. The Breaks mix from 2007 on my mixcloud (in my sig) was done without EQs………or level controls…all 3 channels were wide-open for the entire mix. Yes, I did it in Live. I don't think that hurts my point, because I didn't actually do anything to mix the songs other than hit play at the right times, warp all the songs before hand, and cut up a couple of them in a way that would be easy to replicate on CDJs (though not vinyl).
    Wow, I couldn't have asked for a better reply. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, I will definitely take all this advice and build my skills up from there. Cheers Mostapha.
    Proud owner of an S2!!! (still haven't figured it out yet)
    I'm a total beginner. Take it easy on meh!

  5. #5
    Tech Guru mostapha's Avatar
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    Random little thing I originally forgot about.

    DJTT apparently might do mix battles…I missed the memo. But, DJF has been doing them for years.

    In the vast majority of battles where I've competed or voted where the DJs were competent, most of the votes for the winner included the line "i liked the tracks in mix # better" or something like it.

    Even in a community filled with DJs obsessed with equipment and technique, track selection is king.

    The only time I've gotten a + comment on use of effects was in a Trance championship with required tracks from the beatport top10. The required track for one week blew compared to a different remix of it, so I used a complicated effects chain in Live to obviously switch b/t the remix I liked and the remix that was required for one section of the track, and then back, because I didn't like how the just barely different rhythms and sounds laid on top of each other just mixing. Apart from that, no one ever said "wow, that [insert effect name here] really adds to the track."

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