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  1. #1
    Tech Convert maddiz's Avatar
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    Default How I got Traktor 2 Ableton working with timecode on 1 MAC [UNSTABLE WITH LATENCY]

    Hello all,

    I've been reading the forums for pretty much a while now, the discussions on this board around latency issue's, midi clock issue's, multiple midi controller issue's and so on with this particular setup has made me understanding things more clearly how things work.
    Would like to thank you all for that and I want to contribute something in return for all of you to try out for yourselves. I've received allot personal messages about how exactly got timecode to work when routing the audio from Traktor to Ableton and then to an external mixer (in my case I discovered this by accident)

    Have been experimenting allot with this major and minor glitches, and (for now) sadly but true,
    I DO NOT RECOMMEND playing out live at a gig in a club because you will get your ass FIRED
    Why? I tell you why, it is still pretty unstable and takes allot of time and experimenting to get the settings just right for your setup to play a stable 2 hour set without latency and or audio dropouts.. This is caused by your buffer size and sample rate settings but also the lack of syncing/keeping track the midiclock towards Ableton.
    You might be lucky to get it done, but so far for me I've been struggling and messing with the settings and can't seem to find a real stable setting when using timecode. Perhaps it's just my system and my settings who knows, BUT I hope by sharing this small connecting, it maybe resolve my issue's in the near future!

    If your thinking "Why I should try this or have this setup?", well there is only one way to get an answer to that. Why not?
    In my opinion I prefer to have vst effect racks in Ableton instead of Traktor's incapability of hosting vst's.
    There are other ways to do so too but google is your friend and have not tested this yet.

    What's latency? On my journeys on the web, I stumbled on this article about the best latency settings, it made me understand of how latency works in your system. And how to get a setting for your system.
    Perhaps you might want to have a read on this.
    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan0...pcmusician.htm

    Allright lets get it done.

    I got this to work on a mac, so I write this for mac users. There is (not yet) full support for windows users but maybe you might find something.

    If you already have Traktor to Ableton working, skip this part below

    First things first, you have to setup your system to route your audio from Traktor to Ableton, and also a midi clock is needed to keep both of the programs in sync.
    There are plenty of tutorials on this forum to do so, in case your lazy:

    http://www.djtechtools.com/2008/05/1...ableton-4-mac/
    note: it's a bit outdated but I like the part about using the IAC BUS Driver as your midi clock host

    Also this amazing tutorial, explained very well by DJ Endo from http://www.dubspot.com/
    Part 1 - MIDI CLOCK:http://blog.dubspot.com/syncing-ableton-live-traktor/
    Part 2 - ROUTE AUDIO:http://blog.dubspot.com/traktor-to-a...o-route-audio/

    Also you are going to need this: http://www.jackosx.com/.

    Be patient and read carefully, it might not work the first time you try but this is frequently caused by human error. Just recap every move you have made by following the tutorials and try to find your mistake in the process of routing the audio and syncing the software. Eventually it will work!


    Now this is what I got so far to make your Timecode work!

    This works with every Native Instruments audio interface, that allow you to use timecode except the Audio2DJ which has no inputs. Any other like the 4 (in my case),6,8 or the audio 10 are compatible.
    What I did was change the setting of the Audio4DJ (A4DJ) from line to phono.
    I found this tip in the traktorbible when trying to record sets with the inputs of the A4DJ in Ableton.
    When in Line, timecode will not work. When trying to record audio with phono, you get ground noise. So you have to set it up in Phono.
    See image below.



    Can't find the panel? Go to .../Applications/Native Instruments/Audio 4 DJ Drivers/Audio 4 DJ Settings.app or simple press cmd+space in finder and search for the settings app

    Now fire up Jack, start the server, open the routing plane (Connections Manager) and fire up Traktor.
    Make sure that Traktor is showing up in the Connections Manager of Jack before you launch Ableton!
    Open the Traktor Preferences panel and setup your Audio Device to Jackrouter

    You can also see my latency settings here, this is stable on my system for an hour before it dropsout.



    Then make sure the Output Routing is setup correctly to the JackRouter.
    Put it on External Mixing > set Deck A to JackRouter Out 0 and Out 1 > Deck B to JackRouter Out 2 and Out 3.



    Also setup your Input Routing from JackRouter In
    Deck A to JackRouter In 0 and In 1 > Deck B to JackRouter In 2 and In 3.
    This is a critical setting!



    When this is done and Traktor appears in Jack Connections Manager, next up is launching Ableton.

    Go to Preferences
    The Audio Input Device should be set to JackRouter. Also click Input Config and turn on 1/2 and 3/4 stereo in.
    The Audio Output Device set at the A4DJ. Also click Output Config and check 1/2 and 3/4 stereo out.



    Allright, almost there to test it!
    If you have everything set up correctly, both Traktor and Ableton should appear in Jack Connections Manager.
    By now you should know how to route the audio from Traktor into Ableton by making connections in Jack.
    In case your forgot, this is a nice practice because you will have to do it again.

    Now route the audio through Jack bysingle click on Traktor Out1 to Double Click Live In1.
    Live In1 will turn up red when the connecting is made. Do not misclick or you will have to start over!
    Do the same for Traktor Out2 > Live In2 and ofcourse Out3 to In3 and Out4 to In4.



    Critical setting!
    By setting in the Traktor Preferences the Input Routing to Jack0 and Jack1 for Deck A and Jack2 and Jack3 for Deck B we actually already made the connection for the timecode inputs received from Jack in Traktor. Since we have setup JackRouter preferences to work with the A4DJ as the System Audio Interface in the tutorials, the timecode signal is transmitted from the turntables into the physical inputs of the A4DJ aka Jack "System" ports.

    note: input/output Jack0 and Jack1 in Traktor Preferences refer to input/output 1 and 2 in Jack's Connections Manager and Ableton Preferences. Same goes for Jack2 and Jack3 in Traktor are in Jack and Ableton as 3 and 4 and so forward.. this is where allot mistakes are made.

    Now all we have to do is make the connection!

    In Jack's Connection Manager click System on the Send Ports column.
    Then single click Capture_1 and connect it by double clicking to Traktor In1 in the Receiving Ports column.
    Also do this for Capture_2 to Traktor In2 and the same for Capture_3 to Traktor In3 and Capture_4 to Traktor In4.



    If you have done everything correctly, you must have timecode working!


    My experience with this setup is still a real pain in the ass, and I kind of gave up on messing around with it because I need to have a stable system when playing out.
    You simply cannot have latency issue's or audio dropouts at gigs because it will destroy your reputation...!
    So seriously TEST IT OUT MANY MANY TIMES before you go out..

    Hopefully we all can discover what's the trick behind all this and find a good and stable setting!

    This is my first tutorial ever, so if I need to edit something for false information or so, please forgive my ignorance about that... hopefully you all appreciate my effort.
    Feel free to ask questions below!

    P'z

    Matt
    Last edited by maddiz; 12-17-2012 at 11:32 PM. Reason: mistakes
    Nuuver

  2. #2
    Tech Guru deevey's Avatar
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    Dont suppose you've tried it with Soundflower instead of Jack ?

    Jack has never worked correctly for me while Soundflower runs like a champ with more stability and less overheads.

    Just a thought

  3. #3
    Tech Convert maddiz's Avatar
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    I have not tried it with SoundFlower indeed, because you cannot make custom connections with it...
    But maybe this will work with SoundFlower too. I must admit, I did not gave it a deeper look so I will try next time.
    Are you running a mac too?
    Thnx for your reply!
    Nuuver

  4. #4
    Tech Guru deevey's Avatar
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    Yep I'm on a mac as well and use Soundflower to Connect Trakor / Ableton together. from what you did above it looks as though it might work if you set Soundflower/Audio4 or whatever as part of a simple aggregate device array in OSX's audio/midi setup as you can use the Aggregate device across the 2 programs at once.

    I dont have a Traktor to test with unfortunately... although works with Mixxx, just unsure of how traktor requires the Audio4/6/10 to be connected to Traktor or does it only require it to be plugged into the computer ?

    Lower latency overall, Ableton @ 20ms overall and traktor @ 5.5 for me, don't know how much difference DVS will make to it though, a bit of playing with the latency's between the two is needed for them to both sync up correctly.
    Last edited by deevey; 12-20-2012 at 02:28 AM.

  5. #5
    Tech Convert maddiz's Avatar
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    Hmm usefull tip, I will look that one up and see what it exactly does.

    Traktor uses JackRouter as audio input and output. Ableton uses Jack as input and A4DJ as ouput to external mixer. so in fact it's used by both Audio Interfaces. Jack and Ableton.

    So far as i know i learned that if you use 96000hz 512 samps in jack, traktor applies that to those settings. Ableton you can set up at your own likings but its recommended that you use the same settings in everything.
    The problem is just the latency when playing long sets... only after 90 min it suddenly dropsout. Will try your suggestions!
    thnx!
    Nuuver

  6. #6
    Tech Guru deevey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddiz View Post
    So far as i know i learned that if you use 96000hz 512 samps in jack, traktor applies that to those settings. Ableton you can set up at your own likings but its recommended that you use the same settings in everything.
    The problem is just the latency when playing long sets... only after 90 min it suddenly dropsout. Will try your suggestions!
    thnx!
    There's no need to use 96k, 44.1k is adequate for MP3' and General "DJ use". Using 44.1k should allow you to lower your latency quite a bit as the CPU is stressing 4x less than @ 96k.

    With soundflower you would need to aggregate on the mac so you achieve the inputs on the sound flower card you are going to select in traktor.

    IMHO its a much easier setup and I've played 8 hour gigs using aggregate sound cards before - you could use the Audio 4 as your Ableton output I don't know if if it will make any difference though.

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