Virtual F1 --> Opening up the Remix Decks
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  1. #1
    Tech Wizard Deksel's Avatar
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    Default Virtual F1 --> Opening up the Remix Decks

    Hi guys,

    We were just brainstorming how to go about making the Remix Decks open to all controllers when we were cordially requested to post this in the modding part of the forum, so here it goes.

    The proposition is to see if we can get some of you modding guru's to work together on a Virtual F1 driver that translates the MIDI outputs and inputs of controller X to a virtual replicant of the Kontrol F1 and let this driver communicate with Traktor.


    The idea:
    To create a driver that acts a a Virtual F1 (let's name it that way for now), that listens to MIDI signals from your controller, and maps these signals to the same HID messages that the Kontrol F1 sends and receives.

    Now that might sound too easy, and of course it is. If we look at it, there's communication in two ways, some of which might be quite straightforward, but some might prove difficult
    1: controller --> Traktor:
    Controller sends message to Virtual F1 via MIDI
    Virtual F1 analyses the MIDI message and maps it to the relevant HID message
    Virtual F1 triggers the HID message
    Traktor get's the HID message and acts on it following the original Kontrol F1 mapping.

    2: Traktor --> Controller
    Traktor outputs HID message (for instance, RGB LED variables)
    Virtual F1 interprets the HID message and breaks it down into MIDI
    Virtual F1 sends MIDI message to controller x
    Controller x outputs the MIDI messages (by triggering the LED)

    I'd say we need to try and break this into steps and see how far we get: first try to get MIDI messages translated into HID and see if can control some of the locked features. If that works we have a proof of concept and we try to map all of the F1's commands to Traktor. If we get that far we might have some idea of how to translate the more complex messages from Traktor to your controller, but for me that's a 'nice to have'.

    So how could we go about it?
    1 find out exactly what messages the F1 sends out for each button, get a read-out of all of Kontrol F1's messages
    2 write a driver that can send those messages to Traktor
    3 create a mapping table in which we can link MIDI messages to the according HID messages

    Some remarks that were made in the original thread
    "have you guys heard of midimasher? if zestoi gets the hid messages he should be able to make it work with his app as it uses both midi and HID, if he doesn't chime in send him a p.m."
    "indeed. in midimasher a hid device is defined in similar manor to a midi device - just that you're defining hidpackets with offsets+bitmasks instead of midi messages of type cc/note/pc/pb etc

    they all get converted to event names - pretty similar to how vdj does it. then piping these event names from a hid device to a midi device is as simple as from midi to midi etc.

    fyi hid support is going into mixxx 1.11 not that it helps in any way here."
    "HID to midi converter might be usefull"
    "someone reverse engineered the X1 I believe."
    Does anybody know about this?
    "You could also put it in the modding forum, where the modders could see it."
    Okay
    Last edited by padi_04; 05-25-2012 at 07:44 AM.

  2. #2

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    this^

  3. #3
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    I wonder if that's even possible

  4. #4
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    First of all, MIDI is out of the question here. It's HID, which is going to make this a pain.
    Second, you're gonna need an F1 to find out what HID commands it uses, and then build a MIDI to HID translator (which afaik doesn't really exist yet)

    Hate to be that guy, but this might be a tougher nut to crack than you think. You're going to need some very skilled and dedicated people to pull this off.
    Dell XPS 15 1080p -|- Kontrol X1 -|- Kontrol F1 -|- Akai LPD8 -|- Audio 6 -|- Traktor Scratch Pro 2.5 -|- 2 * Reloop RP-4000 M3Ds

  5. #5
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    I thought so too. will NI ever unlock it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StephanV View Post
    First of all, MIDI is out of the question here. It's HID, which is going to make this a pain.
    Second, you're gonna need an F1 to find out what HID commands it uses, and then build a MIDI to HID translator (which afaik doesn't really exist yet)

    Hate to be that guy, but this might be a tougher nut to crack than you think. You're going to need some very skilled and dedicated people to pull this off.
    It's a good idea, it would actually be easier to write a driver that just pretends to be an f1 and outputs the same hid commands. you just need sum1 to write it for you and buy them an f1. I dont know a single person who writes drivers who is ever out of work tho, so by the time they wrote it in there spare time NI would of probs opened up the extra controls

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    Tech Guru synthet1c's Avatar
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    have you guys heard of midimasher? if zestoi gets the hid messages he should be able to make it work with his app as it uses both midi and HID, if he doesn't chime in send him a p.m.
    Why did the elephant get lost... Cause the Jungle is MASSIVE!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by StephanV View Post
    First of all, MIDI is out of the question here. It's HID, which is going to make this a pain.
    Second, you're gonna need an F1 to find out what HID commands it uses, and then build a MIDI to HID translator (which afaik doesn't really exist yet)

    Hate to be that guy, but this might be a tougher nut to crack than you think. You're going to need some very skilled and dedicated people to pull this off.
    Ever heard of a HID to midi converter? Ever seen any one of the thousands of videos of people using Wiimotes, x box controllers, joysticks, or really anything that isn't a midi controller, to control software?
    this is going to be a fairly easy project. NI could have done it in a couple of hours if they weren't greedy and wanting to sell more F1's

  9. #9
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    HID isn't really a standard in the same way as MIDI is. The implementation is different and proprietary.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by faderswagger View Post
    Ever heard of a HID to midi converter? Ever seen any one of the thousands of videos of people using Wiimotes, x box controllers, joysticks, or really anything that isn't a midi controller, to control software?
    Sure have, but that's irrelevant. This project needs a midi to HID converter, and I've never heard of such thing.
    Dell XPS 15 1080p -|- Kontrol X1 -|- Kontrol F1 -|- Akai LPD8 -|- Audio 6 -|- Traktor Scratch Pro 2.5 -|- 2 * Reloop RP-4000 M3Ds

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