BentoSan's Ableton Smart Mixer Setup Issues (Crosstalk?) - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    Ok. I'll mess with those and see what happens. If I've got any more problems, I'll post here again. Thank you BentoSan!

    -DJ ATP

  2. #12
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    That sounds AMAZING. I still don't quite understand how what I do affects the sound, but I'll figure out a concrete pattern to it all after some practise, and then I'll be able to spend so much less time EQing. Thank you Bento. You just rocked my world.

    It should be sufficient to say the results evoked some happy noises I would rather nobody heard from me. You know, for sake of my outward manliness.

    All I had to do was select output to channel 1/2 for SC A and channel 3/4 for SC B. Now we know. Hopefully anybody else who has similar issues finds this thread and is as happy with the results as I am. FYI, I reassigned the freq. split knob to my crossfader, since it acts like a crossfader, IMO.

    BentoSan, could you maybe explain to me what I'm doing to two simultaneously-playing songs with the LOW/HIGH COMPRESSION knobs, FREQ. SPLIT knob and LOW/HIGH BAND SELECT buttons I'm messing with? I'm sure I could figure it out to some extent, but I won't REALLY actually KNOW what I'm doing. I understand the basics to smart compression (Moldover's video from long ago), but I can't quite figure out what part of the system I'm affecting with the knobs and buttons and what happens when I affect it in a given way.

    Best Regards,

    DJ ATP

  3. #13
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    Well for the moment forget about the high smart-mixing, so just turn down the high compression knob to 0. Also forget about the frequency splitter knob for the moment, just leave that at the halfway position. These are more advanced controls that you wont be using as much as the other controls - if you dont know exactly what they are doing then you shouldnt really be messing with them.

    Use the Low-Select button to set the compression of the incoming track on.

    Now turn up the low-compression knob a bit, nothing too savage unless your going for a really hard cut on the bass.

    Now when you use the internal crossfader in live and crossfade to the middle the low frequencies on the incomming deck will be compressed (acting kinda like turning down the low EQ of the incoming deck).

    Keep crossfading over and the lows on the incomming deck will automatically come back into the mix as you finish crossfading over.

    This acts kind of like automating the most basic dj mix, except it sounds much more natural than the same thing being done with EQ's - as the amount of bass thats being cut is constantly changing in time with the music with a precision that no human could possibly handle.

    I personally don't recommend using external volume faders or cross faders as this will mess up the smartmixing - you need to be using lives internal volume faders and crossfader for the optimum performance.

    The best way to hear how things work try putting on 2 basslines or two kickdrum loops, put your crossfader in the middle then play with the low-select button and the low-amount knob. You will hear one kick drum or bassline over power the other one (or not at all) depending on the state of the low-select button and the low-amount knob.

  4. #14
    Tech Wizard audiomontana's Avatar
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    Hi Bento,
    Im not trying to "JACK" this thread. But as its a current discussion... How does your smart mixing play out conceptually when or if you could add an element of key based gating or compression triggering to the chain?
    all these colors all this metal all this colored mental .. is just sun.

  5. #15
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    I'll say one thing about this smart mixing setup. My mixes sound much better (no change in perceived loudness) than they used to, even with my cueing on my external mixer.

    I've got a sort of pattern down that works alright. I've come to a realisation (even if it might be incorrect technically, it's correct in my short experience) that when I have both the high and low band select buttons lit up, the effects compress deck b, and when they're unlit, the effects compress deck a. I turn down the low compression knob a little bit to reduce the bass crowding, and I use the high compression knob like a volume knob (I inverted the midi range on all the controls to make them act more like volume knobs, where compression is applied turned to the left) to bring in the melody and vocals on the incoming track until I'm comfortable with the mix. Then I cue up the incoming track to the point I want to start it at, turn up the channel fader on the incoming deck on my external mixer, then unleash my mix. Partway through, I either switch the on-state of the compression to change which track is being compressed to switch basslines and beats, or I just finish out the mix and cut out the outgoing track. Took me an hour to get the pattern to some kind of not-ugly, but everything sounds better with smart mixing.

    If I could have my eq knobs compress the signal rather than just turning the volume down on it, I think my basic eq-ing would get better, too...but I'm just as happy with this method, as it frees up six knobs on my VCI-100 (the eq section), not to mention the two mini-knobs already freed up by not using headphone cueing in Traktor.

    I wish the VCI-100 had a built-in sound card. It would make everything so much easier. I would have paid $100 to $150 more for the unit if it came with a (decent-sounding) sound card in it. I like my MAYA44, but it's just not flexible enough for what I need. I originally got it to use with ms. pinky for a cheap DVS setup...but I'm going the cheap Traktor DVS setup until I can get my hands on an actual Audio8 or a good firewire card I can trick Traktor into thinking is an Audio8. Lucky me having a mac...unless Traktor fixes that glitch.

    So. I hereby end this rant. I'mma play with the mixing like you suggested, Bento, to get a better feel for it. Thanks.

    Regards,

    DJ ATP

  6. #16
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiomontana View Post
    Hi Bento,
    Im not trying to "JACK" this thread. But as its a current discussion... How does your smart mixing play out conceptually when or if you could add an element of key based gating or compression triggering to the chain?
    What do you mean by key based gating ? Like moldover style key gater effect ?

    Not sure what you mean by compression triggering either ?

    Could you be a little more detailed ?

  7. #17
    Tech Wizard audiomontana's Avatar
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    .. setting the low, mid, or high frequency channel to gate/open when a certain tone/frequency is present. and ... with compression. basically using the sidechain input from the other channel ..


    I guess thats sort of how it works. I was just wondering how harmonic mixing could apply to this. Im not an expert or anything.
    all these colors all this metal all this colored mental .. is just sun.

  8. #18
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiomontana View Post
    .. setting the low, mid, or high frequency channel to gate/open when a certain tone/frequency is present. and ... with compression. basically using the sidechain input from the other channel ..


    I guess thats sort of how it works. I was just wondering how harmonic mixing could apply to this. Im not an expert or anything.
    That would be a different technique completely different from smartmixing - but theres no reason why it couldnt be used in conjunction with smartmixing.

    Using gate to only allow something though when its sitting in a specific frequency range sounds like something you would do in the studio to isolate parts of a track and not something you would attempt to do live though. Isolating specific sounds\notes in a mix is quite difficult work even in a studio, trying to do it live would probably wouldn't sound too crash hot.

    Still not quite getting you with the compression thing either, the sidechain input is being already being fed from the other channel in the smartmixer.

  9. #19
    Tech Wizard audiomontana's Avatar
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    ok .. that answers my question.. thanks.. i was just wwondering if you had set something like that up.

    By the sidechain/compression thing i meant using a narrow frequency to trigger the compression like the gate. this would create rythmic compression based on the key of the incoming track right? Again wondering how far you have pushed this model
    .
    all these colors all this metal all this colored mental .. is just sun.

  10. #20
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiomontana View Post
    ok .. that answers my question.. thanks.. i was just wwondering if you had set something like that up.

    By the sidechain/compression thing i meant using a narrow frequency to trigger the compression like the gate. this would create rythmic compression based on the key of the incoming track right? Again wondering how far you have pushed this model
    .
    It wouldn't work very, you would get percussion sharing the same frequency range triggering the gate which would cause all manors of misfires, then when a note plays that isn't played loud enough to trigger the gate it wouldn't gate at all. This isn't something i would try live in this context, i would leave techniques like this to the studio as they take alot of tweaking and experimentation to get sounding right.

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