BentoSan's Ableton Smart Mixer Setup Issues (Crosstalk?)
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  1. #1
    Tech Wizard
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    Default BentoSan's Ableton Smart Mixer Setup Issues (Crosstalk?)

    I combined the techniques shown here: http://www.djtechtools.com/2008/05/1...-ableton-4-mac/ with the smart mixer file for Ableton from http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/06/01/smart-mixing-setup-for-ableton/. I get audio out from Traktor, through Jack, into Ableton, then back out through Jack and into my USB soundcard, which then goes to two stereo channels on my external mixer, there's no problem getting audio out through my studio speakers...

    My problem is that I can hear both decks A and B from my mixer master output no matter which channel fader is up on my external mixer.

    Relevant Equipment:

    +MacBook Pro 2.4 GHz, 2GB RAM running:
    --Traktor Pro 1.1.1
    --JackPilot (downloaded yesterday, don't know version)
    --Ableton Live 7
    --MAYA44 USB control panel (needs to be running whenever the card's plugged in to
    --keep the volume up on the in/out channels)
    +MAYA44 USB sound card (4 in / 4 out)
    +Numark DM1050 mixer
    +Vestax VCI-100 SE 1.3 firmware

    My start-up sequence goes like this:

    1.) Plug in and turn on VCI-100
    2.) Plug in MAYA44USB
    3.) Open MAYA44 USB control panel software and turn up the volume
    4.) Open JackPilot and "Start" routing
    5.) Open Traktor Pro
    6.) Open Ableton Live 7 and load BentoSan's LE smart mixer file (I don't have hardware ports for cueing, so I can't use the smart cueing)
    7.) Set up routing in JackPilot (Traktor 1-4 send --> Ableton 1-4 receive, Ableton 1-4 send --> System 1-4 receive)
    8.) Turn on DM1050 mixer
    9.) Rock out

    Deck A in Traktor sends to JackPilot inputs 1 and 2. Deck B in Traktor sends to JackPilot inputs 3 and 4. JackPilot sends channels 1 and 2 to the Deck A section of BentoSan's Ableton file, while channels 3 and 4 get sent to the Deck B section in BentoSan's Ableton file. Ableton outputs 1 and 2 (Deck A post-compression?) get sent to JackPilot, which sends them to my MAYA44 outputs 1 and 2, while Ableton outputs 3 and 4 (Deck B post-compression?) get send to JackPilot, which sends them to my MAYA44 outputs 3 and 4. My MAYA44 outputs 1 and 2 go to my mixer's Channel 1 R and L, while my MAYA44 outputs 3 and 4 go to my mixer's Channel 2 R and L.

    I've got the VCI-100 controls mapped appropriately to control the smart mixer in Ableton, removing the controls from my Traktor .tsi file to make room. Everything in software appears to work as normal (the VCI-100 controls everything just fine, too).

    Now when I play two tracks at once, one on Deck A, and one on Deck B, I expect them to stay separate, as I have them mapped to different stereo pairs, through JackPilot, Ableton, and my MAYA44. What I don't understand is: why when the channel fader for Deck B on my mixer is turned all the way down, and the crossfader is over all the way to Channel A, do I get a mix of A and B out of my master output on my mixer? What this says to me is that Ableton is mixing the two decks together and spreading the signal across both stereo pairs. What I need is for deck A and deck B to be completely separate audio signals (so I can control them on my external mixer), but have the compression applied based on the opposing signal anyway. Is that possible? Is that supposed to be how it works, but I broke it?

    The current results sound great, but it's entirely useless for my purposes with my hardware. Having the smart mixing setup running while mixing completely removes any ability for me to hide the stuff I do while cueing in the headphones from the audience, therefore it is unusable.

    I can't mix entirely in software, because the MAYA44, while having a headphone output, cannot address it as a separate output. It's a hardware mixdown of all input and output channels, so I can't use it as a monitoring port. I'm not interested in a 100% software mixer. I want the flexibility of my mixer to still be present in my signal path. Is there a way for me to keep it, or do I have to mess with a whole bunch of stuff and find some crazy way to make my sound card allow headphone cueing, while doing all my mixing in software?

    Please keep in mind, I have no money for gas to get to my new job on Tuesday, let alone to spend on more DJ equipment or software (or else I'd have a sound card that supported headphone cueing out-of-the-box, like the Audio8 and just call it a day).

    I just want a way to do smart mixing in software, but not have it actually mix the signals, just compress the bass, mid, or high on one deck or the other (or both), and allow me to still cue up the next song. I lack the knowledge of Live and back-end audio technical stuff to figure it out on my own, or I'd just make my own rig from scratch.

    I hope I didn't provide TOO much information, I just have no idea how to explain this, or what to do to fix it.

    Best Regards,

    DJ ATP

  2. #2
    Tech Wizard audiomontana's Avatar
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    it sounds like<hah .. it sounds to me like you might have an extra pair selected in one of the jack streams. Its easy to get things crossed up in jack because of the UI. Maybe check that.
    all these colors all this metal all this colored mental .. is just sun.

  3. #3
    Tech Wizard
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    Thanks. I'll double-check my routing tomorrow after I get back from my first day at my new job. Time for me to hit the sack right now. Gotta make a good impression.

    Regards,

    DJ ATP

  4. #4
    Tech Guru sarasin's Avatar
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    I have the exact problem....minus the port for cueing.

    I also got to the point where i realised it is JACK.

    Trial and error i guess!

    Maybe someone can post a screenshot of what Jack looks like when its routed correctly??

    That could possibly help.

    Or upload a jks file?

    APC80:STR8-100's+Ortofon Concorde Scratch\Electro:ButterRugz:TSP2-NI Audio4DJ:Xone22+Innofader:MacBook Pro 15"
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  5. #5
    Tech Wizard audiomontana's Avatar
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    yougotta be super finite when clicking on the jack streams. whenever you click on an input or an output all the connected stuff is displayed over to the right in the display. Make sure you only have the stuff you want connected on each stream otherwise you end up with all kinds of cross wiring.

    Its really easy to mix stuff up if you are just clickin on stuff. The pilot will tell you exactly how many streams are operating. theres a counter.
    all these colors all this metal all this colored mental .. is just sun.

  6. #6
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    Take a print screen of your jack wirings and also a print screen of your ableton screen - that will help greatly in identifying the problem

  7. #7
    Tech Wizard
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    Uploading screenshots are such a pain...but here:

    http://djatp.com/images/djttjackscre...toroutputs.png
    http://djatp.com/images/djttjackscreens/liveaudio.png
    http://djatp.com/images/djttjackscreens/liveinputs.png
    http://djatp.com/images/djttjackscreens/liveoutputs.png
    http://djatp.com/images/djttjackscre...traktorout.png
    http://djatp.com/images/djttjackscre...abletonout.png

    I don't know what to show you in Ableton, or why. I didn't change anything, I just mapped midi controls to the necessary things as directed. Right click on a control, choose midi map, map the control, click another control, map another midi control, repeat, repeat. Three knobs, two buttons, two channel faders, and one crossfader. I don't do headphone cueing from my soundcard, so I'm using the LE version...and I don't need the extra two buttons for smart-cueing.

    So I just tested the setup, and what's happening: deck A and deck B are both ending up on my deck A section on my mixer. I slide the crossfader on my hardware mixer all the way to the right, I get no sound. I slide the crossfader to the left, and I can hear both tracks.
    Last edited by DJ ATP; 09-08-2009 at 03:21 PM. Reason: MORE INFO!

  8. #8
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    If your externally mixing then in Ableton then you need to change the output routings on the SCA and SCB so they are being output to the appropriate outputs on your soundcard and not to the master channel. Thats why i asked for a printscreen of your Ableton setup as you need to change a couple things in there to output the decks correctly.

  9. #9
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    Ah, ok. I don't know how to do that, but at least it's something simple. Could you direct me where to go to tell the

    Here are screenshots of the main setup and my midi assignments:

    http://www.djatp.com/images/djttscreens/abletonmain.png
    http://www.djatp.com/images/djttscreens/abletonmidi.png

    I think I understand the basics of what you're talking about. The reason I'm able to control anything in Ableton with the crossfader is because you had both decks routing to the master channel in Ableton, which has a crossfader on it to fade between the two channels. What do I need to change in order to keep the two decks' signals separate? I'm literally three days new to Ableton. Any audio production attempts I've made have been on Windows in FL Studio, so I've never felt compelled to give Ableton much attention.

    I'm going to setup a copy of the non-LE file and experiment with mixing (and cueing) just in Ableton, and I'll set up my channel 3 and 4 output on my MAYA44 to be my headphone cue or something, with an adapter to plug in my headphones. It might work out for the best and save me carrying my mixer around in the future.

    Thanks, BentoSan. As usual, you saved the day.

    Best Regards,

    DJ ATP

  10. #10
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    You need to open the input output routings (you can unlock this by pressing the I/O button on the bottom right of the Ableton interface) - you then need to change the output routings from the SCA and SCB channels to external outputs.

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