4-band SmartMixer (like Belvarios)

[Negotiator]

Hey i was just wondering that no 4band smartmixer template was made for live afaik (prolly coz you have the nasty sound when turning up the send knobs 4 times now ), so i took my time to modify Belvario`s Smart Mixer

i added another return channel and rearranged everything according to belvarios mixer

the funny thing is that he prolly made his one on the basis of Moldover`s controllerism setup, which is a variation of a 4 band compression setup

the frequencies were looked up @ Moldovers setup
the only problem is again the reverb-like effect when turning on the knobs
and it seems that the mix is too silent now

BentoSan succeeded in removing this side-effect, but his version has 2 adjustable frequency ranges. I ll start to look into it but it seems it gets very complicated when you try to add another compression range?

any help on this matter and/or criticsm, suggestions, etc is VERY much appreciated!!!

SIC: you need a free VST plugin for this version to work - get it here

DOWNLOAD HERE

[BentoSan]

Actually its not too hard to add in another band range, originally i created a 3 band smartmixing but the results were not that great. After much experiementation i figured that a 2 band smartmixer with a frequency splitter knob provided much better results than a 3 or more band smartmixer.

I feel the best results are had when using a 2 band smart-mixer with a frequency splitter knob and at a minimum a high shelf EQ.

If you have a good understanding of how the frequencies are being split with the filters and inversion techniques its not that difficult to add in a 3rd or 4th effects band.

[Negotiator]

Yes, i also noticed that the mix becomes more and more "strange".

I only thought about using a specific band in specific situations:
e.g. in intros/outros you can hear kicks+hihats often. Now you would like the mix to sound smooth and you want the hihats from song A which is ending to be put instead of the (perhaps non-)existing hihats in the beginning of song B

You could just kill the Hi in the two songs, but in some situations you would want to hear the hihats coming through song B while hihats from song A are not playing or what is more important, smooth transitions when you want to turn down the hihats from song A - the hihats from song B come in more naturally imo than by doing it with the EQ.

Imo it rocks, try it out

On the other hand the usage is limited.

So Bento if you have that old 3 band mixer could you upload it plzz, no matter if its only a stub.
I would stick with Belvarios but yours doesnt have that "reverb" effect so i would gladly give it a try to modify it. I think i will be able to figure it out and add a 4th band while comparing the 2 and 3 band one . Perhaps someone in the community could also have a use for it

[Ola]

Try playing around with the track delays in the belvario one, it will reduce the phasing effects a bit. (10-11 ms if I recall correctly). Could be the plugin reporting the wrong latency, try replacing it with the native one in live and see if it helps.

[charo]

Negotiator, read as much info as you can on the bentosan smartmixer and follow the diagram showing how he set it up. if you choose to attempt to add more bands, all the tools are there.

If i'm reading what you are trying to do, why isn't it possible to use bento's and simply adjust the freq knob so you are getting the range you want?

the effect that is added when using the belvario comes in part in how it splits the high and low and mid freqs, using band filters and lp/hp filters. the difference in bento's is that it uses a lp filter and the unfiltered audio minus the inverse of the lp filter to make the split. you don't have the overlapping compression that you get from going with the belvario route of splitting.

that's the area that you need to explore if you are going to create many bands, that how you split the bands doesn't color the sound.

bentosan is a very clever individual. I would make sure any work i was doing on this was not stuff he had already dealt with, made changes, and moved on.

hope that came out right

[Negotiator]

thx guys for your feedback

@charo: i think im getting the clue of how it works now... thx

If i'm reading what you are trying to do, why isn't it possible to use bento's and simply adjust the freq knob so you are getting the range you want?

Ye i thought about using bentos too, but there arent 2 frequency boarders, so i can only use it for hihats/bass. If you would try to blend in vocals, without having hihats and so on, you would need a modified version of bentos smartmixer

[BentoSan]

Had a quick look around and couldnt find the old 3 band smartmixer but here is a colourless 3 band EQ i made purely for kicks (don't actually use it in my rig) that might help you get your head around the colourless frequency splitting technique that i am using:

http://www.djtechtools.com/forum/Ben...rless%20EQ.adg

For 4 band frequency split i would actually be using multiple low pass filters though with alot of phase inversion and racks in racks going on - fair bit trickier than 3 bands but still very much possible.

If you wanted to improve the Belvario smart mixer using a better frequency splitting technique in the 3 band EQ i just posted would be a very good place to start.

[Negotiator]

thx so much

i finally figured it out how it works!! its brilliant what this inverse trick does

i will post my results/findings once im finished

[Negotiator]

... but here is a colourless 3 band EQ i made....

I dont know if its the most recent version that you have and i hope you dont use this version coz i noticed a bug

You are splitting the frequency in 3 ranges: low, mid and high. In low and high you have filters and now your idea is to use the utility inverse trick to "cut" out the mid part using the same filters you used before.
But here is the error imo.
First you apply lowpass filter, then highpass, then goes utility and then goes original signal. Highpass filter doesnt cut anything after the lowpass filter, so after inverse is processed to the dry signal, the high part is still present, altering the original sound.
My suggestion is that you make 2 seperate inverse racks e.g. first you cut off low and after that you cut off high (prolly there is some other way to do it too)

---
I finished the 4band colourless smartmixer. Ty so much guys for helping out.
The only problem is that i had no room for frequency knobs, so you have to bind your midi mappings manually (be careful, you have to link frequencies to more than 1 auto filter) - or if any1 has a better solution to this, I would be pleased

any comments are appreciated :-*

DOWNLOAD altered BentoSan SMARTMIXER HERE

[BentoSan]

But here is the error imo.

lol, oops, i have a working one somewhere, i should have tested it b4 posting but it was like 4am and i needed sleep