Tricks to using the Camelot wheel....?? Please read....
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14
  1. #1
    Tech Guru 031999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    NYC, NY, USA
    Posts
    1,340

    Default Tricks to using the Camelot wheel....?? Please read....

    So the way i have always mixed on the Camelot wheel is like this

    For Example---> 7b-->7a-->6a-->5a-->4a-->4b-->5b-->6b-->6a

    you get the idea, you can change numbers, but only if the letters stay the same, or you can change letters but only is the number stays the same. I get it!

    But i seem to hear really cool dramatic cool key changes when someone changes for example from 7a to 4b or something like that. Now that technically that's not supposed to work, but sometimes it sounds good.

    So is there some other tricks to using the Camelot wheel that I don't know about???

  2. #2
    Tech Guru Patch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    6,481

    Default

    Yes. Energy Boost mixing:

    http://community.mixedinkey.com/Topi...y-boost-mixing

    As well as going +/-1 on th2 Camelot Wheel, you can also go +7, or +14 (but, because going +14 goes completely around the "clock", and then 2 more, it's the same as just going +2 steps on the wheel).

    So you can go:

    + or -1
    + or -2
    + or -7

    And remain in key. +'s are usually energy boosts, -'s are usually energy drops.

    I have many iTunes Smart Playlists for key matching...
    DJ'ing: 2x1200MK2, DJM 850, Dicers, F1, Zomo MC-1000, Sony MDR-v700, i7 Win 10 HP Envy
    Production: Ableton Live 8 and a mouse, Sennheiser HD400, Sony VAIO

    Click HERE to D/L Free Tracks from Soundcloud!!!
    https://www.facebook.com/Patchdj

  3. #3
    Tech Guru 031999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    NYC, NY, USA
    Posts
    1,340

    Default

    hell yeah man, thanks so much!!

    so your saying, that if i was in 1a i could go to 3a or 8a?

  4. #4
    Tech Guru Patch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    6,481

    Default

    Yup. Go to the MiK site - there's load of info there.

    Sometimes, you can even go diagonally + or - 1 step...
    DJ'ing: 2x1200MK2, DJM 850, Dicers, F1, Zomo MC-1000, Sony MDR-v700, i7 Win 10 HP Envy
    Production: Ableton Live 8 and a mouse, Sennheiser HD400, Sony VAIO

    Click HERE to D/L Free Tracks from Soundcloud!!!
    https://www.facebook.com/Patchdj

  5. #5
    Tech Mentor
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    142

    Default

    heh well you kinda can do these things sometimes. but the answer is don't rely on the camelot wheel, rely on your ears and an understanding of scales/circle of fifths.

    say you were in 8A and went to 3A (which is plus 7, the 'energy boost'), you are talking about going from all white keys on a piano to almost all black keys. that is not gonna sound nice on a slow mix (imagine randomly playing all the notes on a piano over a song) but if you cut into it it would sound like everything raised up a bit - like in some 80s pop songs in the final chorus where it boost up.

    if you combine all the notes of 1A, with all the notes of 8A, that is every possible note :P, and those scales share only 2 notes in common.

    but not all songs play all the notes of the major/minor scale in the track. some just use a few notes from that scale, or a pentatonic scale, so it is better to experiment per song than thinking about moving on a wheel and getting a certain result each time. hope that helps!

  6. #6
    Tech Guru ImNotDedYet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    1,646

    Default

    It really depends on the notes being played at any given moment, especially when you go from one camelot wheel "key" to another. When they recommend going from 6a to 6b, it's because the notes in those musical keys are the same. Going +/- 1 in the camelot wheel (from 6a to 7a or 5a) there is only one note difference from one musical key to the other. The odds of you hitting the different note at the same time (causing dissonance) is slim. The higher the numerical difference you go on the camelot wheel, the more different notes exist between the two keys and therefore the music sounds clashing or dissonant. You may be able to find a spot where this isn't the case, but by the time you've mixed in, you could be clashing.

    Basically, your best odds of not having clashing music are to use the +/- 1 or same number different letter approach. But, you can find songs that are much different numerically camelot-wise that can be mixed with others. If you're looking to make this change, look for songs that have single, monotonous chord stabs or pads, single, long lasting strings and get the mix in and out quick before those change.
    2 x Technics 1210 MKII, Pioneer-DJM 900 Nexus, Traktor Scratch Pro, NI F1,
    Ableton Live 9.6 Suite, Ableton Push, Studio One 3, Moog Sub37, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Korg MS-20 Mini, Yamaha TG-77, TR-8, Rhodes MKI Stage, Wurlitzer 200a, couple pedals, couple amps, lots of software and a freakin iPad

  7. #7
    Tech Guru Patch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    6,481

    Default

    2 great posts, guys. I learned something! (Light bulbs going off left right and centre!)
    DJ'ing: 2x1200MK2, DJM 850, Dicers, F1, Zomo MC-1000, Sony MDR-v700, i7 Win 10 HP Envy
    Production: Ableton Live 8 and a mouse, Sennheiser HD400, Sony VAIO

    Click HERE to D/L Free Tracks from Soundcloud!!!
    https://www.facebook.com/Patchdj

  8. #8
    Tech Guru ImNotDedYet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    1,646

    Default

    BTW, there was a post and a video about different harmonic mixes about six months ago or so? It was somewhat controversial because it was recommended going on much higher camelot wheel changes, but the technique used was looping parts of the songs where there were no clashing notes being played, slowly bringing in the new song. I don't remember where it was, but I'm sure a quick search could bring it out.
    2 x Technics 1210 MKII, Pioneer-DJM 900 Nexus, Traktor Scratch Pro, NI F1,
    Ableton Live 9.6 Suite, Ableton Push, Studio One 3, Moog Sub37, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Korg MS-20 Mini, Yamaha TG-77, TR-8, Rhodes MKI Stage, Wurlitzer 200a, couple pedals, couple amps, lots of software and a freakin iPad

  9. #9
    Tech Guru sarasin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    5,079

    Default

    DOH!

    This is the ONLY way bro!!



    Power Boost is the way forward!!!
    APC80:STR8-100's+Ortofon Concorde Scratch\Electro:ButterRugz:TSP2-NI Audio4DJ:Xone22+Innofader:MacBook Pro 15"
    www.soundcloud.com/djsarasin
    www.youtube.com/adriansarasin

  10. #10
    Schalenberg
    Guest

    Default

    Patch, thanks for that link! Didn't know changing bpm affected the key. I'm just getting into key mixing. Great stuff in this thread.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •