Setup Question: Yamaha S115V's & Traktor S2 MK 2

[ZoSo19]

Hey guys,

I am looking to pick up some secondhand gear from a family friend that is in great condition, but I wanted to ask about setting it up properly/making sure I get all the necessary components and it all fits in my budget.

The speakers would be Yamaha S115V's and I currently use an S2MK2. Would it be possible to plug in directly from my S2 and play or could the speakers get blown/not be loud enough? Would I need a Sonic Maximizer (like the BBE 882i) to power the things to take full advantage of the sound?

Also, are these good speakers in terms of bang for buck, weight, mobility, etc?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated, cheers!

[soundinmotiondj]

You need to take a BIG step back. Your question shows a fundamental lack of understanding about PA systems.

This is "the" book to get for understanding the components of sound systems. This book is a bit dated, but it still provides a solid foundation for understanding and using PA systems.

http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reinforc.../dp/0881889008

The S115's are solid, reliable, workhorse kind of speakers. They are heavy, and a reasonable choice for starting out.

Directly connecting the S2 to the speakers is not advisable. There is no chance the speakers will be damaged, but it is unlikely that they will produce enough sound to actually be audible.

You will need an amplifier to power the S115's.

You will never need a Sonic Maximizer. It can help some low end speakers to sound better, but for a few $$ more you can get a Digital PA manager that is more flexible and offers more control.

[ZoSo19]

Thanks soundinmotiondj!

Your book suggestion is greatly welcomed as I'm more familiar with studio setups rather than live PA systems, hence why I asked the great community of DJTT.

Since I am looking for my first set of speakers to play out more (house parties, practice, possibly public events, etc.) would you recommend a powered speaker setup or go the PA system way? From your experience, what would you have done differently when you were looking to do the same?

[SlvrDragon50]

Powered.

Just much more convenient.

[soundinmotiondj]

I prefer passive over active. I have more control, flexibility, and modularity. Others will note the "plug-n-play" nature of active as an advantage. If you need more than "two tops and subs", passive will likely be cheaper over time.

If I were just starting out, I would take a realistic look at what it takes to start and run a small business. Running a small business (even as a hobby) is HARD. I started for the music (...it wasn't until after I was already DJing that I found about about the "sex, drugs, and rock&roll" ), and not for the "running a small business."

I would make a realistic list of expenses: laptop, software, cables (signal, speaker, power), power strips, speaker stands, bins to haul it around in, transportation, website, business cards, internet, phone line, business insurance, PA gear, microphones, music, etc, ad nasium. That is your "fixed overhead" costs. Remember that you will need/want to replace and upgrade that every few years. How many gigs can you book in the first two years? 30? 50? 100?

Add up the "per event" expenses: mileage, tolls, parking, gaff tape, batteries, specific music, meals, dry cleaning, etc, ad nasium.

Can you realistically charge enough per gig to cover those expenses?

If you really want a bucket of cold water....add up your living expenses and add that to the "per gig" amount you need to make. Rent/mortgage, insurance (property, health, car), utilities, food, clothing, savings, retirement, car payment, entertainment, vacations, X-Mas presents, etc, ad nasium. About this time, you'll be resolving to keep your "day job" as long as you can...that's a GOOD decision.

While I probably would have still started a DJ business...I did not take a serious look at it as a "business" for several years after I started. I wish I had done that.

[mostapha]

Am I wrong in thinking that SoZo19 is talking about DJing parties either as his end goal or to try to get gigs in clubs while soundinmotiondj is talking about running a mobile DJ business?

The concerns are very different between the two.

Anyone who knows what they're doing needs to know the answer to that before they can help.

[soundinmotiondj]

Am I wrong in thinking that SoZo19 is talking about DJing parties either as his end goal or to try to get gigs in clubs while soundinmotiondj is talking about running a mobile DJ business?

The concerns are very different between the two.

The OP had a stated goal of finding a PA to "play out more (house parties, practice, possibly public events, etc.)" And asked "...From your experience, what would you have done differently when you were looking to do the same?"

While I did take some "creative license" with the answer, I stand by the answer. When I was looking for my first PA to "play out more" I wish I had approached it more as starting up a small business than as an acquisition of "toys."

I agree that there are different concerns. I would be happy to hear your take on the things you would have done differently while trying to land club gigs.

[mostapha]

Honestly, I can't fault your advice except to say that it might scare somebody off and say priorities matter.

It's not a cheap hobby, so the warning is worth it....just maybe not as vehemently as you put it. We don't know his financial situation or where he lives.

That being said, I've done small apartment parties with my $300 monitors and a borrowed sub. And, I've been to underground "clubs" that only had a b-52 matrix system (not a house party) that is, well, kind of crap.

Decent PA gear gets expensive QUICK. And it doesn't sound good at bedroom volumes.

I don't actually know how cheap of an amp you can get away with these days.....but based on the last time I went shopping, how I was taught to do it, and GC's prices....we're talking about a $500 amp to run those speakers correctly. Fortunately, you can get away with spending a little less on the amp for your sub(s) since you can (and often should) run mono bass. So, call it $900 just for the amps. FR-only is, IMHO, a huge mistake that a lot of people make, so I'll dismiss that option by saying that dance music without a sub is just a waste unless you've got a really good reason (like practicing in an apartment).

For that money, you can get a krk or truth 8" pair and matching sub. You won't be able to fill anywhere near as big of a room, but you could fill a low-ceiling living room without people needing earplugs and you'll be able to play at bedroom volumes and still hear what you're doing...you just need a way to put the speakers high enough.

Either your way or mine is definitely better than what a lot of the locals here do of just putting up a pair of JBL Eons or Mackie SRMs and pretending they can output bass....and just slamming people with crunchy snares all night. These also tend to be the people who think red lights mean it's almost loud enough....so that might be part of the reason I think this speakers are crap.

If he went your way, he could eventually get passive monitors, put his amps and stuff in a portable rack, and be able to do both. I think that's what you were getting at. And in the long run, you don't buy duplicate gear....unless you use your bedroom monitors as booth monitors, then you either need both sets of stuff or more amps.

I might be totally wrong. But, I think that a monitor system that's powerful enough for a living room and still gives a response at bedroom volumes is the right way to go.

And if he does start getting gigs, it's been my experience that the DJ brings-at most-the booth gear. FOH processing, amps, and speakers are the responsibility of the host, promoter, production company, or club. So, unless he wants to fill one of those roles too, he might never use the PA system again. And I've only known one guy who ran a real PA system at home. It was one of my most profitable days working at GC because he was going through a divorce and had to replace basically everything. But I was also shouting at him for the whole conversation.

And every house party I've ever been to has had a promoter/label behind it, had terrible sound from those damn eons, or had a HiFi/monitor setup that let people dance or converse as they chose in the same room.

Just 2 different options based on different priorities.

Maybe his scene is different from what I've found. If he wants to host big house parties and has a big space, your way makes sense. If he wants to play outdoor parties, your way makes sense. If he wants to be a mobile jock, your way makes sense.

If he wants to keep learning, preserve his hearing, and invite some people over....I think it's counterproductive.

I couldn't drive those yamahas hard enough to hear what I'm doing in my home without getting evicted. I'm almost tempted to say monitors first, then white van speakers and a peavey amp if he needs them. It won't be as loud or sound as good as the yammys, but the set I traded an old $40 text book for...they sound better than those damn eons, at least.

One more thought....I agree that passive systems tend to be better once you hit a certain level. You can direct your upgrades to the individual pieces that are bottlenecking volume or sound quality. There are a lot of little things you can do. The gear is easier to fix and have backups for.

But depending on priorities, I'm not sure it ever matters for someone who only wants to be a club DJ.

[soundinmotiondj]

And it doesn't sound good at bedroom volumes.
...
I couldn't drive those yamahas hard enough to hear what I'm doing in my home without getting evicted.

This effect is a combination of the "room modes" and the "equal loudness curve" (Fletcher-Munson). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletche...3Munson_curves As a start, the lower the SPL, the more "smiley face" the EQ will be.

For any given sound level, it is reasonably trivial to get a PA system to provide a "flat response" with a 31 band EQ. For some cabinets, even a 4 band para-EQ is sufficient. This is NOT the same EQ settings that would be appropriate for a higher (or lower) sound level.

The room modes for "small" spaces (less than 50ft square) are MUCH harder to understand and manage. Small rooms typically require VERY specific cabinet placement and some acoustic treatment of the room. The end result is a good listening area that is the size of a beach ball...and you need to make sure that area is comfortable for you to put your head in that space! In that sense, small monitors or even a 2.1 "computer" speaker system tend to offer more flexible placement and mounting options when compared to the S115's that are the size of a small filing cabinet!

For amps, there are several reliable, but heavy, options in the $300/amp price range. Crown, QSC, Peavey, and even Behringer all have reasonable entry-level amps.

In terms of how much use the OP will get out of owning a PA....and how they are visualizing the venues where they will DJ...that is a question that the OP needs to answer. Since the OP is looking at full range speakers, I presumed (assumed?) they were intending to provide the PA themselves.

Overall, I find that dedicated tops and subs to be a more flexible system for me. It does require that I have subs at every event. BUT, once you add subs, a top with a 15" woofer is 2x heavier and 1/3 more pack space than is needed to produce content from 100Hz and up.

Looking at a "final" system with tops and subs....a 10" or 12" top as a "compromise" for "full range" use, with a plan to add a sub in the future would be a better direction (at least for my usage pattern). There will be a 5-ish Hz loss of low end extension compared to a 15" loaded main, and a loss of maybe 3dB of usable SPL. That loss of performance will be traded against a cabinet that is 2/3 the size and half the weight.

[mostapha]

I agree with you completely, except about the amps. Based on how I was taught, the $300 amps you mentioned are not powerful enough to really drive those speakers with enough headroom.

It's a good way to blow the amp.

I do understand F-M curves better than a lot of people and agree. But that's one more cost for the do-everything PA system. Again, not wrong, just perhaps not ideal.


Also, I think we scared him off.