Customers want sync, they just don't know it.

[ImNoDJ]

I like the guitar analogy, mostly because I play guitar (badly). I use an electronic tuner because it's quicker and more accurate than my ears. I occasionally leave it on when I'm going to be bending strings a lot (i play blues, so that happens a good bit) so I don't get lazy and go flat or get over-zealous and push something too sharp. I don't stare at it, but I do use it, especially when practicing.

I also use capos and occasionally use open tunings even when I'm not playing slide.

I cheat.

Some people are worse than me and use "Drop D" tuning (or some variation of it) so that they can play power chord riffs by just moving one finger along the neck and strumming only the lowest 2 strings instead of the insanely more difficult task of holding 2 fingers in one position and moving it up and down the neck.

In case you can't tell, I like sync just fine. I also really like Felix da Housecat's take on it.

I play guitar too, none of that is cheating. Someone with crap rhythm is going to have crap rhythm regardless of their tuning or the simplicity of the chord voicings.

Someone with crap rhythm as a Dj can pretend to have good rhythm, this is the difference.

Ive made this point before, its not so much about beatmatching as it is to do with fear and timing.

So many new DJs seem terrified of manually hitting loop buttons, or being able to drop a beat on time without assistance. You used to have to have a musical sense of timing to be a DJ, and now you dont. To me thats a much bigger problem than sync.

[William Gibson]

That is correct. Your changing your statement with every post.

yes, I think someone is pretentious if they activly bash someone that uses sync. Your last atatement about "what I said" is 100% correct.

I never said craft = pretention.

You put words in my mouth and changed your story when you didnt agree with me.

saying I think someone is pretentious for bashing someone that uses a tool and saying craft = pretention is 2 totally diffetent things.

Granted I have been drinking for a few hours but can we atleast agree that those 2 things are completly different? What am I missing?

[ImNoDJ]

.....

[keithace]

At least on the night I went, I'd say about half the DJs were "not there" yet and I'm convinced the customers who paid $50 a ticket shouldn't be used for their practice. Seems like it would be better to use the sync and practice at home.

I play golf with some dudes that I have to remind that the course is not the place to practice...

[William Gibson]

Im getting sick of these semantics, how bout you?

Agreed.
Cheers, brother.

[ImNoDJ]

Agreed.
Cheers, brother.

Works for me mate.

Now im just amusing myself with the word pretension.

"Pretension - the unpleasant quality of people who think of themselves as more impressive, successful, or important than they really are."

Seems to describe most EDM sync users Ive seen. They all pretend to do an enormous amount of unneccesary jog spinning and knob turning. If they embrace sync so much, then why do they pretend not to use it?

There are DVS users who dont know how to beatmatch. I would be so embarrassed to show up with gear I couldnt actually use.

Not saying all sync DJs are like this, but all the EDM ones Ive seen were.

I absolutely believe there is a time and place for sync. I also believe there is no time and no place that isnt better by learning how to beatmatch.

[mostapha]

Nah. Its very clear what you were saying, and you got called out on a silly blanket statement.

"Again, If you look at it like some pretentious artist then yes, I understand the argument that sync is cheating."

You explicitly stated that one is pretentious if they think sync is cheating. Youre doing as much 'bashing' as anyone else in the thread.

That word, explicit. I don't think it means what you think it means. :P

Someone with crap rhythm as a Dj can pretend to have good rhythm, this is the difference....So many new DJs seem terrified of manually hitting loop buttons, or being able to drop a beat on time without assistance. You used to have to have a musical sense of timing to be a DJ, and now you dont. To me thats a much bigger problem than sync.

I disagree.

If you don't have rhythm, you can't mix, sync or no sync. And it's not necessary to have rhythm to beatmatch.

If you think you can phrase match without a "musical sense of timing", then your mixes suck whether you think you have it or not.

Seems to describe most EDM sync users Ive seen. They all pretend to do an enormous amount of unneccesary jog spinning and knob turning. If they embrace sync so much, then why do they pretend not to use it?...Not saying all sync DJs are like this, but all the EDM ones Ive seen were.

Useless knob tweaking has been around since long before the current fad.

There's no reason for hip hop DJs to baby over a down beat for a whole song, and there's no reason Sasha always has appeared to take 4 minutes to beatmatch a record.

People get uncomfortable standing in front of a crowd doing nothing for large sections of a track.

[JaF]

Seems to describe most EDM sync users Ive seen. They all pretend to do an enormous amount of unneccesary jog spinning and knob turning. If they embrace sync so much, then why do they pretend not to use it? .

How many is "they all?" Are we talking a dozen or hundreds? Reason I ask is because other than youtube, I've never actually seen guys on digital gear pretending to not sync.

[JaF]

I wouldn't think it's by any means "pretentious" to enjoy experiencing a skilled performer perform. I'd not have it any other way.

Well that's what I'm saying though, club goers will hear mistakes from people who do and don't sync, and after this past weekend I'm convinced the overall quality of their experience would be better off if we all used sync (talking controllers or cdjs, there were turn tables setup but nobody used them).

[deevey]

Well that's what I'm saying though, club goers will hear mistakes from people who do and don't sync, and after this past weekend I'm convinced the overall quality of their experience would be better off if we all used sync (talking controllers or cdjs, there were turn tables setup but nobody used them).

Club Goers may hear subtle variations in everyones mix when sync is not used and when the the DJ can beat match without fucking up - done correctly this can actually make a night better and can make for a more energetic "seat of the pants" night.

Club goers will notice mistakes if the DJ relies on sync and a particular track has a broken grid or wrong BPM.

Club goers will notice mistakes if the dj is not using sync and/or not able to phrase or beatmatch

In the case of the latter, the DJ should not even be trying to beat match without sync, or should not be playing (or at least paid to play) to a crowd if they are so bad they are clearing the floor every time they fuck up.

I've seen crowds go mental with no beat matching whatsoever and the DJ simply cutting into intros/breakdowns - the crowd doesnt give a flying fuck what equipment / technology is used on a night, however its up to the DJ's to utilize the gear as best they can. I've seen plenty of DJ's who couldn't beat match to save their life and they still rocked the crowd though other methods of mixing.

Sync wont fix vocal or key clashes, it only fixes one single audible element of things a (bad) DJ can screw up.