P.A School (General Advice).

[thisisian]

I haven't read the entire thread, & this may or may not be an issue.....

...but are you aware that Turbosound is now owned by Behringer? (technically, they're owned by Music group, but they're the parent company of Behringer)

[robdquick]

I have done many a small gig (up to 100 people) With just 2 15" tops. In fact, I did one on Saturday. When people say there will be 100 people there, that doesn't usually mean there will be 100 people on the dance floor at the same time. I reckon I had at max 60 people on the dancefloor at a time, and my 2 15" tops put out more than enough volume and bass for the gig. As long as you get the speakers up high enough it shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't be comfortable taking 2 12" tops or smaller to a gig with no sub, they just wouldn't put out the bass you would need. Anything over 100 people and I take a sub, over 150ish I take 2 (depending on the size of the room!!)

[soundinmotiondj]

...but are you aware that Turbosound is now owned by Behringer? (technically, they're owned by Music group, but they're the parent company of Behringer)

And?

Turbosound and Behringer were independent companies that came together as separate brands under a parent company. As of now, there is no reason to think that the quality of Turbosound has been altered as the result of this merger/acquisition. |

The specific hardware being discussed from both Turbosound and QSC is far from "entry level" and has a proven track record in terms of performance and value.

Behringer has had a much better than average reputation for quality over the last 5 to 8 years. The first generation of China outsourcing they did was an unholy MESS. Pretty much anything derogatory you wanted to say in the late 90's was going to be true. But since they opened their own facility just after Y2k their China operation is second to none in terms of quality control. Several of their digital products are GREAT value for money. The X32 is LEADING the next generation of digital mixers. While I remain skeptical of ANY manufacturers "entry level" price point gear, Behringer has quite a lot of gear that is good value for money.

[b ill]

I hope I don't get things too muddy, but DB Technologies and FBT are two other brands local to your area that are generally highly regarded on the internet. And once again because of my location I have no experience with either...

Regarding subs vs. no subs - it's not a matter of volume but a matter of quality. Of course two 15 tops will get the job done in smallish venues. But can you live with the sound personally, and in your area will you get hired back? Those are personal questions that only you can answer for yourself.

[DJ SB]

Like I said, to me, the Turbosounds sounded quite a bit more pleasant than QSCs.

[soundinmotiondj]

Regarding subs vs. no subs - it's not a matter of volume but a matter of quality.

This.

It can be hard to understand that subs are not about "louder" sound (as in increased SPL), but rather that subs are about "fuller" sound (as in <60Hz content). The additional content will add some additional sound into the room...but that is a side effect and not the purpose of using the sub.

And, the best place to put subs (<100Hz sources) is (almost) NEVER the best place to put the tops (>100Hz sources). Tops + subs offers the "best" compromise on flexibility for the mobile DJ who will be in different venues with every gig.

[Karlos Santos]

Well I feel a bit of a prat right now. I just did a gig at a regular club and they have 18" RCF subs (oldish ones) and according to the spec sheet they are 52kg only 4kg heavier than the Milan M18B and there is no way in hell I can lift one let alone 2 of them on my own up a flight of stairs. Granted the RCF are a little bigger, so harder to manage but crikey how do you people carry these 18" subs.

Yeah I'll have a trolley (sack truck) but there's no way I'd want to struggle with 2 x 48kg subs.

Pretty much set on the Turbosound setup especially as I have beaten down the price of the subs at one store.

I did look at DB Technologies but for a similar price I'd be getting half the wattage (I know not the most important aspect) but I'd rather be getting 2200 watt subs that 800 watt subs at the same price.

I'm nearly there... unfortunately with it being the run up to Xmas I'm thinking should I lay off for a January sale bargain (as is the custom in the UK) plus my branding and website won't be finished for a month so I may end up losing a chunk of my warranty.

I have kinda put the cart before the horse with this project - but toys are more appealing than marketing crap... right !!!

[Chelan]

Karlos -

I was just curious why you seemed to have ruled out the RCF brand (too expensive?) and the Yamaha DSR series? I had also never heard of Turbosound, but would be interested in seeing/hearing them myself. I don't own a PA, but am in the market for one also. I'm sold on the KW181, but not so much on any of the QCS tops. But I'd like to keep all the speakers the same brand.

Also, could someone tell a newbie why or for what purpose a 3 way speaker would be used for? Just more SPL basically?

And for that purpose, what is the difference between a 2 way and a full range speaker?

@ b ill: nice to see some PNW representation

[SumthinJumpin]

Karlos,

You know the Turbosound M15B 2200W is maximum power output not RMS, ok? So, you’re not comparing apples with apples against the DB-Tech 15D which is shown as program power of 1000W and peak power of 2000W. The max SPL is almost the same 134/133dB in both cases, so realistically they are probably both 800W amps.

Also, I think 15 subs are fine for a mobile setup, I had a pair of LEM Poseidon 218 subs before (2x18” each!) and yes they were thunderously deep down to 35Hz, but oh my gosh were they impossible to move, they were about 120kg each and even with castors they had a mind of their own, they were meant for a travelling stage show…… learnt my lesson there…..

Chelan,

A 2-way or 3-way or even more ways is used to generally allow improved quality, and/or sound distribution.

In a smaller setup like in home hi-fi, or something like the RCF 6001a that I have (it’s quite an unusual beast) it’s generally for quality. Each type of loud speaker driver; low freq or bass cone (woofer), midrange cone (squaker), and high frequency (tweeter) dome or ribbon etc can produce its own frequency range more accurately and efficiently if it’s not trying to reproduce such a wide frequency range.

By only expecting a driver to handle a narrower frequency range you can design that driver specifically for that task. If you imagine a single driver/speaker, like you have in a portable radio, it is trying to produce bass by move air at <400Hz at the same time as vibrate for cymbals at 15kHz, and basically it can’t physically do it, and you end up with a compromise.

For a woofer, having a big cone only moving masses of air relatively slowly means you can design the cone material, voice coil and suspension to do that, then with a tweeter you can look a smaller voice coil, with a very light diaphragm and possibly couple it to a horn structure etc..

Admittedly although re-integrating the sound from several drivers also has its challenges, generally narrowing the range for each transducer makes then individually better.

When you get to bigger stuff it can also help with coverage and flexibility in stacking boxes to cover the expected crowds etc. Low frequency and therefore bass bins are omnidirectional (you can stand behind a bass bin and still hear it well) but as you increase to the High Frequency the speakers become much more directional, so you can have more boxes to cover all the punters. So you see bigger PA and flown systems with many boxes, both for sheer quantity, power handling and volume, but also because they are arrayed to cover the crowd well.

[SumthinJumpin]

And.... using setting teh frequency crossover points, using passive or active crosswers, and multiple amps etc is another subject too.