Traktor, vinyl control and external mode

[Blockage]

Just got my Traktor Z2.

I've been spinning for 20+ years but I'm a digital DJ noob. Over the last few years I've been doing more production work than DJ work. My set up is based around 2 1210s a synths, drum machines (vst and hardware) and Ableton Live. I want be able to play vinyl and scratch with mp3s (still blows my mind how good this feels). I tend mix a range of hip hop, techno, d n b, and whatever.

The Z2 is is slick, but I'm really disappointed I can't use vinyl control with Traktor in external mode. I was hoping to route each deck to a separate Ableton track and integrate Traktor into my set up (DJing in Ableton is a buzz kill --- way too much preflight set up). Seems like the z2 isn't intended to integrate into a studio, basically it's a just a toy.

Can anyone suggest an affordable alternative? Right now I'm looking a used Denon x1600 for flexibility.

[Jester]

I have the x1600 mate and it is one fantastic, feature packed mixer. I would definitely recommend it.

[mostapha]

But it still won't do what you want.

That's a limitation of time code systems....you have to use their sound card (in your case, the z2) for the DVS software. You can't route the deck to Ableton first (in software).

There are ways to do what you want, but you can't do it with any mixer that has a traktor scratch sound card built in. The x1600 will work the same way.

What you'd have to do is use an NI A6 or A10 for traktor, route it's analog outputs into another set of inputs, which go into Ableton. Then, a separate set of outputs would go to your mixer.

Personally, I don't think that kind of thing is worth the cost and complexity. But, I also don't really scratch or care about physical decks.

The z2 is a very nice mixer....but, no, it won't do what you want. That's not a flaw with it....it's just that exactly what you want to do isn't particularly common.

[djrickdawson]

Short answer: you need 2 soundcards.

long answer:
my setup is this and works the same way as you want to get working...
http://forum.djtechtools.com/showthread.php?t=85103

[Blockage]

Thanks people.

I was following this tutorial. blog.dubspot.com/traktor-to-ableton-live-how-to-route-audio/ Seemed like it should be possible to route the audio in software using Jack OSX. The problem is, with the Z2, switching Traktor into external mode disables DVC.

I'm not trying to send the signal to Ableton first. The route I was hoping for was something like this:
Timecode on the 1210 > Z2 input > Traktor plays MP3 file > Jack OSX > Mix in Ableton via midi > Z2 output.

Or the analog path would have been:
Music on the 1210 > Z2 input > Jack OSX > Mix in Ableton via midi > Z2 output.

Basically I'd just be using the z2 as a sound card and midi controller. Are you sure this is a limitation with all Traktor mixers? I heard the DJM T1 only supported external mode.

[Blockage]

Are you sure? I thought that's what Jack OSX or Sound Flower are for. Internal routing?

[Patch]

I've been trying to do this for bloody years, mate. The big problem, is that Ableton Live doesn't follow an external midi clock very well at all.

Ideally, your routing would go Traktor Outs > Ableton Ins (at least 1 Live Channel for each Traktor "Deck". But, you could also get REALLY creative and have multiple Live channels for each Traktor Deck - 1 for capturing Loops, 1 for "Dummy Clips", 1 routed to Sends, etc...) >Abeton Outs > Mixer Ins (again, 1 channel for each Traktor (or combined Live) Deck/channel.

Another problem is - you've got TWICE the latency (Traktor Latency + Live Latency).

You could try the Deckadance DVS software. It works as a stand alone VST, so you could set up an instance on each Live channel, and go nuts. You could use your existing Z2. Problem there is, Lives track browsing and navigation SUCKS compared to Traktor.

I can't believe that there is not a SIMPLE routing software for PC that allows you to cross-route software inputs to software outputs (soundflower for Mac works (I think) but the PC equivalents aren't great.

Between Traktor and Ableton, we have the most unbelievable capability - but they just don't play nice together...

[mostapha]

soundflower for Mac works (I think)

It hasn't been updated in years and doesn't work well anymore, at least not for me....not like it did.

As far as additional latency....it's just not a big deal. I mean....your computer has to be able to handle it, but as long as Live isn't doing too much with synths or intense (like, mastering-quality) processing....most of the latency comes from decoding the DVS signal anyway. Running Live with a few effects plugins, sample-based drum machines, and simple synths at the lowest possible latency is no big deal.

I think either Decadance or Serato DJ (if they every release Bridge for it) is the way to do what you want to do.

Live does really suck at following a MIDI clock (at least when I was usng it)....but making Traktor follow Live isn't a big deal....you kind of have to have a controller for Live anyway, so just use it's tempo control and sync Traktor's decks to Live's clock. You lose some of the point of DVS, but....meh. You can't use soundflower or jack or any other virtual sound card to do it with DVS at all. Sync + scratching & slip cuing is better than nothing...if you're into that kind of thing.

You could also do it james zabiela's way and just not sync them...keep Live beatmatched just like you would any other deck pre-sync.

I'm in a similar situation in that I kind of want to add a bit of processing that Traktor can't do and maybe try a Push in place of Maschine, but I also want to play with my 1200s. So, it's either buy a nicer sound card and get lower latency, better sound, better processing, more capabilities, easier recording, and a better controller.....or use DVS....or eventually do both, just not at the same time.

This should be an easier choice than it is except that the sound card I want costs a lot more than an A10.

[Blockage]

Seems like Serato + Bridge get closest to what I'm looking for. I'm not deep enough into Traktor yet. I might give SSL a go. But AFAIK it looks more useful for fixing mixes after the fact, than being able to use Ableton and DVS together in the mix.

Stepping back, what I'm trying to do is:
- keep my workflow, effects and instruments in DAW land (Ableton, but I'd go back to Cubase if I really had to)
- use DVC for scratch and vinyl control
- as others have said, browsing collections in Live totally sucks. This is pretty nice on the Z2.
- I want to be able throw old school vinyl into the mix too (I have too many records to rip).

I'll manual beat match if need be. Seems pretty dumb syncing is the problem. But yeah, I've seen this problem too. I was messing about with Jack OSX, internal mode and DVC disabled, Ableton's metronome was drifting pretty badly. I was able to nudge it back into time, it seems pretty dumb that would be necessary.

The interesting thing about the x1600, is its ability to totally separate the audio path from midi control (apparently). Anyone know if any other mixers can do this?

[djrickdawson]

set the bpm in both traktor and ableton... then nudge. = most accurate method.

That is what I do.