Prejudice against controllerists?!

[DJ_Animus]

This thread is not meant to be an emo "waaa, theyre making fun of my toy" thread. Its purpose is to discuss in length the issues we face as controllerists.

First, what do we define as a controllerist? Is it anyone who uses a midi controller instead of the norm of CDJ/TT? Or do we say its anyone who uses the midi device in their own customized fashion? Is the guy with the Herc RMX and VDJ a controllerist? (not bashing you guys, merely trying to figure out at what point are we labeled as such)

Second how do we promote our brand of DJing? How do we get people to take us seriously given the influx of "Microwave DJ's"? This past weekend I set up my rig and some raver kid is like oh man I want one of those, and I get DJ's looking at me funny all the time when I show up to perform. How do we get past all the accusations of us not being real DJ's? Whenever a promoter asks me, so do you use TT or CDJ and I say MIDI they are extremely confused.

I think this "prejudice" is a real issue. Im aware that vinyl guys treated CDJ guys in the same light, but now we have to deal with it in the same vein from two sources, perhaps even more.

I always try to focus on how their is no right or wrong format for DJing. Our purpose is to entertain the crowd. I try to emphasize to my peers that I enjoy what I do and always try to show them why its a legit form of DJing.

So with that said, here are ways to show that controllerism is legit.

1) Tell them to youtube Ean Golden (may not work for all scenes, but its a great start)

2) Debunk the auto sync myth. Sure you can press sync and it may work, but show them what happens when you put the effort into beatgridding, its a much tighter mix. Demonstrate how you can beat match in a traditional by ear style.

3) Show them a fun and simple routine that they could do on your setup but cant do on their Turntables. cue juggling is always fun.

4) My favorite is to do a 4 deck mix and show them that with controllerism you can truly create a sound that is your own with out having to do a live PA.

5) Customization! I think the biggest power with controllerism is customization. You can choose how crazy or simple you want to go.

I find that when I keep a cool head, brush off the insult and snide comments and do what I do best, that I become one step closer to bridging the gap.

So lets hear what you guys think about controllerism and the issues we face and how to deal with it.

I would like to hear Ean tell us how he dealt with his entry into DJing via MIDI was it difficult to become accepted amongst his peers? Does prior sucess have anything to do with it?

I hope I was able to bring up an interesting topic that will help spark some ideas in how we can move forward professional amongst our peers.

This is Animus, Im a MIDI fighter.

[AndySpence]

Totally know what you are talking about!

I went to meet up with a promoter once and he asked what kit i needed to have, he meant TT's or CDJ. I said that i needed just a master mixer hooked to the PA and that was it. He looked at quite puzzled and asked about "actual" dj gear. I told him i used a computer and a keyboard (UMX 25) and he laughed at me in my face and told me to get some real decks and some real skills!

I played the next wknd and this promoter was at the same place. I had my setup the same as always. When he noticed i was juggling some tracks along with some looping and effects tricks and the crowd where responding really well he come up and said he was wanting me to play the next wknd.

I told him to go **** himself and a whole lot of stuff straight from the heart. Drastic i know but i took a stand. I dj for the music and the crowd NOT the people who like shiny, expensive, "Traditional" equipment and to "look cool".

I keep telling myself that "Controllerism is Realism."

peace


ps. and to answer your question, i believe a controllerist is like what moldover says "traditional/turntable style techniques but using a computer and a controller" so yeh i reckon herc rmx + vdj is controllerism.

[Ciar2001]

Personally I could care less what people think, if and when it ever happens that I do play out again, it will be digital as that's how i decided to restart rather than TT's, as Andy already said it's got nothing to do with what gear you have it's how you use it and tunes you play simple as that, if I do a mix and can add fx and loops and now I have been shown do some beat juggling, then i shall.

sorry to say and i have said this on another website technology waits for no man, think of the original dj's with 1 turntable just changing the records to the guys who thought up turntabalism and then scratching and mixing it's just evolved and it will no doubt evolve further, people need to have a forward thinking mindset.

don't get me wrong I still have my 1210's and my vinyl those will never leave my side until i depart this mortal coil, but as for playing on them no that's a thing of the past, maybe for a laugh and just because i love the feel of vinyl but digital and controllers for me is the way forward

give you an idea the 13 year break i took was just when mixers starting getting EQ's and before CDJ's! so i missed all of this, so I know nothing about CDJ i skipped a whole generation do I care nope

[wrong chris]

not to discredit your thread but my opinion is a big wopping WHO CARES when it comes to controller prejudice. if your good at what you do people will realize it. andy's story was a perfect example, and good on you andy for telling that hack to fuck off when he came begging for you to come back hahaha i thought that was awesome!

i'm finding that this year especially oldschool djs and promoters are starting to come around. There's a shitload and I mean a shitload of high profile artists using controllers in their sets now, the only people who don't know are some fred flinstone-ass motherfuckers who need to get with the times.

all you can do is invite these guys to your events and hand them a demo, i wouldn't waste anymore time then that on some crusty old dinosaur. if you're really good at what you do it's their loss, not yours and definitely not controllerists in general.

we shouldn't be defining what we do by the tools we use. it's not about our equipment it's about mixing some music together for people to dance to.... thats it!

I don't categorize other musicians by who plays electric guitar and who plays acoustic guitar, so why should us DJs do the same regarding our equipment?

[Ciar2001]

Viva la revolution

[Pollux#13]

not to discredit your thread but my opinion is a big wopping WHO CARES when it comes to controller prejudice. if your good at what you do people will realize it. andy's story was a perfect example, and good on you andy for telling that hack to fuck off when he came begging for you to come back hahaha i thought that was awesome!

i'm finding that this year especially oldschool djs and promoters are starting to come around. There's a shitload and I mean a shitload of high profile artists using controllers in their sets now, the only people who don't know are some fred flinstone-ass motherfuckers who need to get with the times.

all you can do is invite these guys to your events and hand them a demo, i wouldn't waste anymore time on some crusty old dinosaur. if you're really good at what you do it's their loss, not yours and definitely not controllerists in general.

good words!!

[DJ_Animus]

@duerr

Its true why should we care, but the truth is, I dont really think controllerism is widely accepted as legit yet. Sure I can do a banging mix, but then Im criticized for using a laptop. (Serato doesnt count apparently) Your counterpoint was well written, but I still feel there is a group of us out there who suffer from this. The reason I even wrote this was because of the influx of new super budgeted "toys" coming out. Im not mad they are coming out, Im glad actually for sole fact that more people who can actually bring something to the table will now be able to. Accessibility is good.

Here is an example of the prejudice I speak of.

In NY the "underground" house music scene is more like a resistance group of vinyl militants who are clinging to their roots. These guys wont even let CDJ DJs spin at their parties. I did a 4 deck min/tech house mix and they asked me to spin, I was thrilled, I showed up started to setup and they asked how do I spin on vynil (they never saw traktor, its serato or die for these guys) I told em I dont, its all via midi. They told me to pack my shit and leave.

True story. And thats just one example. What I would like to see is a focus on how we can overcome this hurdle. Its easy to say whocares, but when you have to deal with it, you HAVE to care.

[wrong chris]

@duerr

Its true why should we care, but the truth is, I dont really think controllerism is widely accepted as legit yet. Sure I can do a banging mix, but then Im criticized for using a laptop. (Serato doesnt count apparently) Your counterpoint was well written, but I still feel there is a group of us out there who suffer from this. The reason I even wrote this was because of the influx of new super budgeted "toys" coming out. Im not mad they are coming out, Im glad actually for sole fact that more people who can actually bring something to the table will now be able to. Accessibility is good.

Here is an example of the prejudice I speak of.

In NY the "underground" house music scene is more like a resistance group of vinyl militants who are clinging to their roots. These guys wont even let CDJ DJs spin at their parties. I did a 4 deck min/tech house mix and they asked me to spin, I was thrilled, I showed up started to setup and they asked how do I spin on vynil (they never saw traktor, its serato or die for these guys) I told em I dont, its all via midi. They told me to pack my shit and leave.

True story. And thats just one example. What I would like to see is a focus on how we can overcome this hurdle. Its easy to say whocares, but when you have to deal with it, you HAVE to care.

those guys aren't going to be calling the shots for very much longer my friend... djing has always been about what's new, what's innovative what's interesting. not about some crusty old bastards who are doing the same old same old and exclude people for being different.

I hate to sound cliche but the old saying "what goes around comes around" comes to mind. These cats who are excluding you now, they're gonna get bitten by the karma bug hard.

just gotta hold your head high, find the promoters and get bookings for events where your choice of equipment won't be a determining factor. create an audience for your work so that industry professionals will know your brand. If you can show your power in numbers, businessmen will not ignore that.

I saw this interview with Z-Trip where he was talking about when he was just starting out djing and some of his first gigs people cleared the floor because he was doing something different that nobody was used to. Now Z-Trip is widely recognized as being one of the best in the business BECAUSE he was doing something different than people were used to.

[Pollux#13]

@duerr

Its true why should we care, but the truth is, I dont really think controllerism is widely accepted as legit yet. Sure I can do a banging mix, but then Im criticized for using a laptop. (Serato doesnt count apparently) Your counterpoint was well written, but I still feel there is a group of us out there who suffer from this. The reason I even wrote this was because of the influx of new super budgeted "toys" coming out. Im not mad they are coming out, Im glad actually for sole fact that more people who can actually bring something to the table will now be able to. Accessibility is good.

Here is an example of the prejudice I speak of.

In NY the "underground" house music scene is more like a resistance group of vinyl militants who are clinging to their roots. These guys wont even let CDJ DJs spin at their parties. I did a 4 deck min/tech house mix and they asked me to spin, I was thrilled, I showed up started to setup and they asked how do I spin on vynil (they never saw traktor, its serato or die for these guys) I told em I dont, its all via midi. They told me to pack my shit and leave.

True story. And thats just one example. What I would like to see is a focus on how we can overcome this hurdle. Its easy to say whocares, but when you have to deal with it, you HAVE to care.

only last week i ask an old friend of mine who does pr for one of singapore's more underground but popular club just for an open session on a non crowd night just to have a feel of the sound system and club environment and i ask him what i was doing(dj controllerism set). and i ask him whether i can do it with controllers and he just told me that its just cdjs. its disheartening i know but stand strong to what you are doing times are changing people will accept this idealism sooner or later. yes there would be people who would get controllers and stuff especially when there are influx of controllers in the market and people getting into it but those who are serious about it would definitely stay on and do more than what they started out and thoes who just takes it as a fad would die off same goes for how people would take up djing years back with tts and cdjs. only those who are really serious in what they are doing stays on. i started out with just a dj-tech i mix controller and am progressing more and more by the day and still learning. with forums like djtechtools people would be aware of what we are doing and a good guidance to what controllerism would be about. just like i said keep on doing what you are doing and stand strong in what you are doing and your believes.

[V-Hoff]

those guys aren't going to be calling the shots for very much longer my friend... djing has always been about what's new, what's innovative what's interesting. not about some crusty old bastards who are doing the same old same old and exclude people for being different.

I've talked about that in other post. People who are not innovative will never like changes, they are in The Comfort Zone:

check wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_Zone_Theory
check the book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F

People like that, as whe wiki says, will always be stressed out about all those changes and they have a fear that they will be all alone and without audience when the "cheese" runs out, as the book says. People with fear will do anything to overcome their fear. When you see people like that, try to recommend this book and this wiki post.

My Background: I work at the Information Technology industry as a Oracle Database Administrator tuning the performance of the DBs in a Mobile Phone service company. I need to always know (in deep) what the people who are "Early Adopters" liked to see runing in their Database. I know when I'm good and up-to-date with the market knowlage when all those Comfort Zone's guys laugh of my face or doesn't even know what I'm talking about.

Don't be shy or angry because of their attitude, you're the smartest guy for beign soo advanced for the time you live. Advanced minds will never be understood for "Late Adopters" people, read some scientists biographies and you will know some stories that ends with awfull deaths.

check out the wiki again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_adopter
and for the last time in this post (maybe): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusi...ter_categories

We are on the early adopters people right now. Ean, Moldover, Kaito, Tom Cosm and all those people that the early adopters love to see inventing stuff at the you tube are the Innovators.

As I'm entering the DJ world right know, I've never played on a CDJ and I'll not know how to do it like the DJs that are playing now because I want to work with the TOP techniques and with stuff that allows me to play with more creativity.

Knowlage is everything, as a DJ we need to know how the human head works to be sucessfull, but not only the audience head works, the producer's and the fellow DJ's head too, otherwise we will always be angry and desolated because of these episodes.

ps: Sorry about my languages mistakes, I'm practicing.