Clipping between audio effects in a chain
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  1. #1
    Tech Mentor daviedavedave's Avatar
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    Default Clipping between audio effects in a chain

    This is going to seem like a really basic question to many on here, but I've seen conflicting advice on the net.

    If the chain's level goes 'into the red' after, say, a compressor, but you EQ it down immediately after that, will the final signal going to the master chan be clipped from being too loud after the compressor?

    The reason I ask is because Ableton's website seems to say that no clipping can occur between effects in a chain because there's "practically unlimited headroom". But that doesn't seem to make sense to me, and there's advice posted in various places that you shouldn't allow that to happen because it causes clipping.

    Anybody know which it is?
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  2. #2
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    "Clipped" is about the SHAPE of the final waveform. This effect happens whenever the signal passed through a processing stage where the magnitude of the signal is larger than the maximum magnitude that can be represented in that processing stage. Any signal that is larger than the maximum will be truncated and will appear as "flats" on the waveform representation.

    In a digital signal chain, the magnitude of a waveform (the amount of distance between the signal level and a "0" point) is determined by the number of bits used to represent the waveform. CDs use 16bits. Most "high resolution" A/D converters use 24bits. Most digital mixers and DAWs use 32bits (a few use 64bits, which is ridiculous).

    So, in practical terms, it is not possible to "clip" the signal in a digital environment. The signal can be scaled to fit unclipped into the resolution of the final D/A conversion at the output of the digital environment.
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  3. #3
    Tech Mentor daviedavedave's Avatar
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    OK thanks, makes sense.

    So basically, although it might be bad practise, having effect output 'redlining' within chains isn't a massive deal... so long as it sounds alright and the master chan has headroom?

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    Tech Mentor Nick V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daviedavedave View Post
    OK thanks, makes sense.

    So basically, although it might be bad practise, having effect output 'redlining' within chains isn't a massive deal... so long as it sounds alright and the master chan has headroom?
    Yes - the only time you might run into issues is with bounce in place (this is a Logic thing - not sure what the equivalent is in Live). So if you have say a limiter or compressor that is keeping the track from clipping on a bus but you bounce the individual channel you could clip there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviedavedave View Post
    OK thanks, makes sense.

    So basically, although it might be bad practise, having effect output 'redlining' within chains isn't a massive deal... so long as it sounds alright and the master chan has headroom?
    For content GENERATED in the DAW (e.g. virtual instruments, synths), there is effectively "unlimited" resolution. For content recorded into the DAW, the final resolution will be limited by the A/D converters bit depth and sample rate of the sound interface.

    When working with a project that includes both generated sound and sampled sound, it is best to keep the signal chains in the linear region and avoid "clipping" (the changing of the shape of the resulting waveform).

    The DAW can certainly represent the signal at high magnitude. Some effects or plugins might actively add compression or limiting to the point where the SHAPE of the final signal is "clipped." Once that happens, it can not be undone later in the signal chain. If you desire a "distorted" sound, adding that as a plugin on the specific channels is a better option with greater control than driving any individual part of the signal chain past the maximum resolution supported.
    Last edited by soundinmotiondj; 05-13-2015 at 08:47 PM.
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  6. #6
    Tech Mentor daviedavedave's Avatar
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    Thanks guys this is really helpful.

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    Tech Guru Tarekith's Avatar
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    Some plug ins like the UAD stuff react differently to the signal they're presented too, so in those cases it's bad to send too hot of a signal between devices. In general there's really no need to let signals get that hot between devices anyway, especially in Live where you can just drop a Utility inbetween plugs to turn things down if you need to.

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