MIDI Fighter Twister: My reservations
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  1. #1
    Tech Wizard Scoox's Avatar
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    Default MIDI Fighter Twister: My reservations

    To give you a bit of background, up until now I've been using a Behringer BCR2000 with a custom Traktor mapping. It works very well but it's bulky and needs mains power to work, so I've been thinking of getting two MIDI Fighter Twisters to replace my BCR2000. However, I'm procrastinating on placing my order and when that happens it means something isn't right about it. It's a strange yet familiar feeling of reservation. So here's what IMO is wrong with it:

    1) The side buttons: I have absolutely nothing about the side buttons being there. I am free to choose to ignore them. But unfortunately I cannot ignore them because those buttons are the only way to switch banks. I intend to have two units side by side, in a flight case, nice and snug between foam padding, which means I'd need to take the MIDI fighters out of the case each time I need to switch banks. The MIDI Fighter 3D has dedicated backlit bank selection buttons on the top face, which IMO is the perfect way to do this.

    2) Push encoders cannot be programmed to switch banks: The MIDI Fighter Twister is screaming for this, given the inconvenient location of the side buttons. This would be a good interim solution as it can be delivered via software & firmware updates.

    3) No selected bank indicators: Again, the MIDI Fighter 3D has backlit bank selection buttons which very clearly indicate which bank is currently active. The side buttons are opaque and have no LEDs, which forces users to necessarily rely on the LED ring colours to identify the current bank selection. While this works, it's not a good substitute.

    In summary, the MIDI Fighter Twister **IS** a very nice controller but lack of dedicated bank selection buttons is a deal breaker for me. If there ever is a v2, and it has dedicated bank selection buttons, I will definitely buy it.

    For now the only solution for me would be to unscrew the back of the MIDI Fighter Twister, solder a breakout cable to the side button contacts and install a few external switches so I can have access to my banks from the top. Still, no LEDs.

    I have one small question, it is not clear from user manual and the online documentation what the LED under each encoder does, how it's programmed and whether its colour can be altered by Traktor (like on the Launchpad S) or it can only be set to a fixed colour by the software utility:



    Thank you

  2. #2
    DJTT Administrator del Ritmo padi_04's Avatar
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    Hey Scoox,

    Just some extra information on your comments:

    Switching banks with the top encoder buttons
    This can be done, page 8 of the User Guide shows you the right messages you should be assigning to the Encoder presses so they can handle bank switching

    LEDs under encoders
    These RGB LEDs display the status of the encoder's button, just like any other light on Twister it can be controlled via MIDI and you can even program blink/pulse animations or change it's brightness independently. Color is handled by adjusting the velocity of the MIDI OUT to the controller and the message it listens to is the same that the MF Utility displays (normally on Ch.2). You can find more information about how to get this going on page 4 of the User Guide.

    All that said, should we make a new version of Twister in the future having dedicated bank selectors is something that it's quite possible it gets implemented.

  3. #3
    Tech Wizard Scoox's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot for getting back. After reading your reply I feel more confident about buying the MFT.

    Quote Originally Posted by padi_04 View Post
    Switching banks with the top encoder buttons
    This can be done, page 8 of the User Guide shows you the right messages you should be assigning to the Encoder presses so they can handle bank switching
    That's sounds like what I need, but I'm still slightly confused. The user guide says:

    By sending Note On messages to the Midi Fighter Twister it is also possible to force it to automatically change to a specific bank. I.e. To force a change to Bank 2 send a Ch4 CC1 Note on.

    Slightly off-topic, but I believe the above statement is incorrect because there is no such thing as "CC Note On"--it's either CC, Note On or Note Off. Please can you clarify?


    For argument's sake, let's pretend that the user guide meant "Ch4 C1 Note On" (C1 as in C1, C#1, D1, etc). The above statement clearly implies that the MIDI message must originate outside the MFT. For example, Ableton Live would send "Ch4 C1 Note On" to the MFT to get it to switch to Bank 2. However, if I assign "Ch4 C1 Note On" to one of the push encoders, I assume the MFT would send the MIDI message down the USB cable, just like any other MIDI message, but will the MFT respond to this message? Is this some sort of "reserved" that has a special meaning to the MFT, such that when the MFT itself generates the message it switches banks?

    Quote Originally Posted by padi_04 View Post
    LEDs under encoders
    These RGB LEDs display the status of the encoder's button, just like any other light on Twister it can be controlled via MIDI and you can even program blink/pulse animations or change it's brightness independently. Color is handled by adjusting the velocity of the MIDI OUT to the controller and the message it listens to is the same that the MF Utility displays (normally on Ch.2). You can find more information about how to get this going on page 4 of the User Guide.
    This is great news. I missed that bit of the manual and should have looked more carefully. Apologies

    Quote Originally Posted by padi_04 View Post
    All that said, should we make a new version of Twister in the future having dedicated bank selectors is something that it's quite possible it gets implemented.
    I do like the sound of that
    Last edited by Scoox; 10-01-2016 at 06:20 AM.

  4. #4
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    I've owned all of the midi fighters and have never liked the side button, they completely destroy the flow, just a personal taste, the midi fighter is still one of the best midi controllers available for certain, but I have almost never used the side buttons, could never get used to them, I'd rather see the midi fighter a little bigger and utilise the space with all controls on the top.

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    Tech Wizard Scoox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodbytes View Post
    I've owned all of the midi fighters and have never liked the side button, they completely destroy the flow, just a personal taste, the midi fighter is still one of the best midi controllers available for certain, but I have almost never used the side buttons, could never get used to them, I'd rather see the midi fighter a little bigger and utilise the space with all controls on the top.
    You confirm my worries, you basically would need two hands to push one side button; that is, one to push the actual button and one to hold the box still. On the following video at 3:05, Ean Golden demonstrates Newton's Third Law of Motion:



    Anyway, do you still own the MF Twister? If so, would you be able to check if it's possible to switch banks using the push encoders? This would make the lack of top-facing bank select switches more palatable.
    Last edited by Scoox; 10-02-2016 at 03:44 AM.

  6. #6
    DJTT Administrator del Ritmo padi_04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoox View Post

    Slightly off-topic, but I believe the above statement is incorrect because there is no such thing as "CC Note On"--it's either CC, Note On or Note Off. Please can you clarify?
    Send a message with velocity 127 to those CCs and it will change the bank in focus. These were previously handled by a Note message and it looks like we were a bit too fast at updating the User Guide and that's why it still reads Note On.

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    Tech Wizard Scoox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by padi_04 View Post
    Send a message with velocity 127 to those CCs and it will change the bank in focus. These were previously handled by a Note message and it looks like we were a bit too fast at updating the User Guide and that's why it still reads Note On.
    padj_04, thanks for your reply but you haven't answered my question yet

    The user manual says: "It is also possible to use MIDI to read and set the currently selected bank." Here is my problem: I don't want to use MIDI to set banks, I want to use the push encoders to set banks.

    My question: Is it possible to switch banks by pressing push encoders?

    In post #2 you say it is, but the user manual doesn't explicitly say so. I need to know asap because I'm placing an order with Digital Village either tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, including 2 x MIDI Fighter Twister. I will only purchase it if it can satisfy this basic requirement. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoox View Post
    You confirm my worries, you basically would need two hands to push one side button; that is, one to push the actual button and one to hold the box still. On the following video at 3:05, Ean Golden demonstrates Newton's Third Law of Motion:



    Anyway, do you still own the MF Twister? If so, would you be able to check if it's possible to switch banks using the push encoders? This would make the lack of top-facing bank select switches more palatable.
    I don't sorry Scoox.

  9. #9
    Tech Wizard Scoox's Avatar
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    Thanks anyway

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    OK, after a bit more googling I've found this:

    Midi Fighter Twister (Product review)

    You have 4 banks that are accessible two ways. One is through small recessed side buttons. Unfortunately I find them a bit weird to work with.
    I guess they would just take some getting used to. I want to add to that the fact that Twister also sports an accelerometer based midi controller option. That means you can lift it from your desk and control a few things with its up down xy movement (It has been brought to my attention that I wrote this in error. Indeed Twister does not have an accelerometer function. However the Midi Fighter 3D does have this fumctionality) I am sorry for any confusion.
    I myself prefer to maintain the controller in a modular style side by side configuration on my workstation.

    Which leads me to the second way to access the four banks is through Midi control. basically, Twister receives certain midi notes through a predefined midi channel and voila! You have bank change!

    Initially I spoke with Mattias in depth about this matter. He even created four ableton clips for this purpose. That worked! But whenever I launched the clips then of course Ableton’s transport would play. I might not want that! All I want to do is change the banks on the Twister without pressing play!

    I decided that I wanted more flexibility. So, i called upon my brave Max 4 Live crew to develop a solution.
    The above article confirms my suspicions and I will not be buying the MIDI Fighter Twister and will be sticking with my BCR2000 for DJing until DJTT releases a firmware update that enables using the push encoders for bank switching. IMHO this is an obvious and, quite frankly, ridiculous design flaw. It's very disappointing that such a high-end device, the best on the market as far as build quality is concerned, has a stupid limitation like this. You know it, and Ean Golden himself knows it every time he pushes those silly side buttons
    Last edited by Scoox; 10-03-2016 at 05:10 AM.

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