What do you think about Gemini MDJ-1000?

[loverocket]

Traktor is DJ software.

[Reticuli]

Still waiting for a firmware to resolve the MDJ issues.

I ran some RMAA tests of the Hanpins, Pioneer CDJ-900, and Gemini MDJ-1000 playing off a flash drive. All done using SPDIF out.

For MP3s, 320 was a significant but not alarming reduction in specs for all three brands. VBR was substantially worse (red line with wild high frequency swings), and they pretty much decoded MP3s of varying types similarly as far as their own respective fidelity -- i.e. their traces looked similar and their respective numeric results were different mostly with respect to the same differences seen in the wav performance. In other words, none of the brands decoded MP3s substantially different (let alone worse) than the other, and fidelity differences were independent of their methods of MP3 decoding.

For wav files:

Hanpins are always slightly processed, probably due to their complicated effects section. Keylock On at zero pitch is no different than keylock Off at zero pitch.

CDJ-900 is bit perfect at zero pitch regardless of whether keylock is On or Off

Gemini MDJ-1000 with keylock Off, while not quite bit perfect like the CDJ-900, is closer to bit perfect than the Hanpins. Interestingly, keylock On with zero pitch is significantly processed in the MDJ, with about a 2dB swing in varying, squiggly frequency response, early multi-tone high frequency roll-off (yellow line), and a reduction in most specs closer to the Hanpins. Now, this is un-pitched, so there's no telling how the actual key lock algorithms compare on each of these. I have some ideas about how I might test key lock fidelity among the brands. On the Hanpins and Pioneers, if you return the track to zero pitch after transitioning, there's no point in turning Off the keylock if you were using it for the blend. On the Gemini, there is currently very much a utility in turning keylock Off when not using it.

[Reticuli]

Great Product to start with. The pitch control works well and is very responsive.

I disagree. The Pioneers and Hanpins have no major bugs in their firmwares.

[DjBlend]

Has anybody who still has the MDJ-1000 tried them with the 6.5 firmware update? Does it have a lot of update and is it working any better ???

[Reticuli]

Has anybody who still has the MDJ-1000 tried them with the 6.5 firmware update? Does it have a lot of update and is it working any better ???

I have. Many of the bugs have been reduced and some of the features I requested have finally been added.

Occasionally the hot cues and main cue still glitch up, though somewhat less frequently. I had an instance where it wouldn't set Cue 3 and the unit (I'm pretty sure) finally set it as Cue 2 when I was still hitting Cue 3. I had a few instances of the main cue jumping forward randomly. On a positive note with the main cue, though, hitting play, checking the cue by scratching it, and then releasing actually does work pretty reliably now. It only occasionally jumps forward when scratching back from the main cue after hitting play. Not perfect, but improved here.

The folder at the top in the browser still reads as track #1/out-of-whatever and all the actual tracks in the folder misidentify on that screen as one number more than what they are after you select them.

There is still a split screen in the browser. I wish it would at least disappear when you are scrolling and stay gone for a second or two after stopping or just not split until you push in the first time or even make it defeatable in the options as it still sometimes slows browsing as the right-hand info loads. Constant split screen makes it impossible to see most of the whole folder and filenames on the left side. On a positive note, the right side information hasn't seemed to be frequently wrong like it was before, where it would be for the adjacent track. Was the issue in the prior paragraph causing that? Anyway, I think optimally four options could be available for split screen in browser: On, Off, Delay, and Push. However, I'd be happy with just On and Off options.

By the way, I am noticing some subtle, faint burn-in on the screen occurring where the waveform display horizontal rectangle region is and the white mid-point vertical line. Gemini may want to add a black blank single frame every 10 seconds or minute or so like some plasma screens used to do if that would reduce it. I doubt it would ever get so bad as to make the screens completely useless, but it does appear to be progressive from when they are brand new. I don't know if it plateaus at a certain level of faint imprint two of the players are currently at or will get worse indefinitely.

There is still no actual read-only mode with Fat32 USB drives. It always creates a Gemini folder on the Fat32 drive, unlike the Hanpins. You could always just format the drive NTSF, but my Hanpins and Pioneers can't read that so I'm not about to redo all my drives for the Geminis.

They did add a feature to disable analysis, which is great. I wish the BPM counter would not show up when you have analysis off. On open decks nights I'd rather not have 130BPM showing up as a dummy indicator to confuse anyone. Either make it blank or change it to a default 100 when analysis is off and there is no analysis file for the track. I'd prefer blank, but 100 would at least not be as confusing.

They added Filenames as a top track text info selection, though it eventually defaults back to track name if the unit reboots. I wonder if there's some way to have the units remember the selection or change the default setting under options.

Track Search Next still occasionally, though less often than before, causes USB drive read failure and the player to reboot/reset.

Search Forward sometimes still jumps to the next track after a few seconds of holding it trying to move to a new later point in the track. Issue with specific tracks? (Edit: this occurs on MP3 VBR tracks) These tracks don't have any problems on Hanpins or Pioneers. Not sure why they're still doing the Search Forward with you NOT hearing chipmunk in the background. It's like a kind of slow needle drop. It obviously would have been nice to see such a hardware needle drop strip below the screen since it's not touch or Gemini at least increase the maximum speed you can scratch forward. Anyway, if the Track Search Next and Search Forward just perform correctly and reliably all the time, I could live with even the crude Track Forward function it's currently intended to do.

My buttons are also still exhibiting some glitchy double taps, though in the grand scheme of things this is relatively minor right now.

The sound quality to me seems a little thinner and brighter, which may be my imagination. I have not run RMAA on it again yet.

There is definitely slightly higher overall latency (like when scratching) when playing off a USB drive. Latency is not high on my list of importance, however. I'd much rather have higher latency if it resolves the other problems.

I quite enjoyed using them for an hour or two at home prior to a gig, so much so that I brought them with me to the gig and used them with an MP2015. I was looking forward to having rate-based jog bend (as opposed to the Hanpins) with no Pioneer jog bend dead zone and 0.2 pitch resolution at 24% that is also better than Pioneer's 0.5 at 100%. I don't usually need more than about 24 to 32% range max, though I wish it was 0.1 resolution and 16% range was 0.05 increments.

Unfortunately, their goofy old Denon DJ SC2900/3900-era Link and the remaining persistent glitches made them embarrassing & aggravating to use during the 4.5 hours that I DJed out with them for the first time Saturday night. I was exhausted and had a stress headache when I got home.

I also still have not managed to get the sound cards in them to work since v6.4. Not sure what's up with that or if it's just on my end. I don't plan on using them for that much, but it's something I check on the firmwares.

I have no idea what state V-Case is currently in. They need to improve that, add various options I've asked for like choosing where the strangely very large FFT analysis files are saved, allow it to scan drives and save analysis on that drive itself without requiring iTunes-like library management and exporting of playlists only, and add the ability of a computer to hook into the shared Link network switch so that you can offload tracks from the computer to the decks. That last one is probably what I'd use V-Case for the most when people have requests. Even the old Denons could do that.

I should also mention that the units sometimes just plain don't want to respond when you are trying to eject a USB drive by putting it on CD or when you change it to MIDI. I guess you have to decide whether you are planning on using standalone mode or MIDI for the night and that's it.

They sometimes still won't Link and keep jumping back to USB. This seems to get worse throughout the night, though that might also be my imagination. And obviously it's annoying you can't go between USB, Link, and MIDI easily without losing Link or MIDI. The Pioneers are effortless in that regard. I will note that on the Hanpins the rear USB can only be set to either Link or MIDI in the options, but you can still move between USB and MIDI seamlessly when Link is set to off in settings.

That Link, though, is a let down from a hardware standpoint on the Geminis. Being able to choose which drive you read from with one drive connected into each unit over a switch is super convenient on the Pioneers and (I presume) on the newest Denon. Even if all the glitches and lack of cooperation from the players are resolved and all the feature requests I've made have been added, that old sc2900/3900-style Link is always going to be holding these back. From a hardware standpoint, they will never be as carefree as the Pioneers in standalone mode. I just wish the Pioneers had higher pitch resolution beyond 16% range and didn't have that awful jog bend dead zone. Oh well, we'll always have the Hanpins! Other DJs have mentioned to me, though, that they would much rather use the Geminis than the Hanpins for open deck nights once all the feature requests have been added and the bugs resolved. Others seem far more willing to forgive the antiquated Link than I, so take my reservations on that subject, I suppose, with a grain of salt. Their issues tend more towards the ADJ Hanpin's time-based jog bend "nudge" design and it being about twice as bend sensitive as it should be.

In conclusion, accepting for a moment their hardware shortcomings, these players still have beta quality firmware, but are getting closer to a late beta and there is definite progress towards what I feel might potentially be stable and reliable standalone performance comparable to the Denon SC2900/3900, but with better displays and more & deeper features. I will use them some more today to see if I can narrow down when the known issues are occurring and see if there are other problems I can find or insights I can give.

IMG_20170715_221707.jpg

[deevey]

In conclusion, accepting for a moment their hardware shortcomings, these players still have beta quality firmware, but are getting closer to a late beta and there is definite progress towards what I feel might potentially be stable and reliable standalone performance comparable to the Denon SC2900/3900, but with better displays and more & deeper features.

Honestly, just WOW .... 3 years later and 6th revision of the firmware and they almost manage to have the featureset they should have been released with, which makes them almost the equivalent of a 5 year old player from Denon.

Real shame - It sounds like their hardware is pretty much spot-on while they just don't have the programming resources to pull off the whole package. If I bought a pair I'd be pretty pissed.

[Reticuli]

Honestly, just WOW .... 3 years later and 6th revision of the firmware and they almost manage to have the featureset they should have been released with, which makes them almost the equivalent of a 5 year old player from Denon.

Real shame - It sounds like their hardware is pretty much spot-on while they just don't have the programming resources to pull off the whole package. If I bought a pair I'd be pretty pissed.

Yeah. I suspect they would still also have that grounding fault that causes them to freeze up if all the audio & SPDIF grounds are temporarily broken and reconnected. Not sure if the Denons did that. Maybe it was just Link dropping out. Can't remember. I actually haven't checked that issue recently on the Geminis. I put them in some cases and hadn't touched them since the last firmware. It could be worse, though. It can always be worse.

If you're careful with the connections, accept that the Link is old Denon-style, and they get the firmware up to snuff, then they will be able to do some things I can't with any one other player. I am doubtful the new InMusic iteration of Denon DJ is ever going to allow the complete hiding of the waveform and BPM info on the SC5000 or read-only mode. Possible. I also wouldn't bet money that Pioneer will do anything about all their update-able firmware players' pitch resolution on Wide and that jog bend dead zone.

I am fairly content with the ADJ Hanpins, but very few other DJs are comfortable dealing with the very sensitive jog pitch bend nudging. I think this Wednesday I will have two other people using them for open deck night besides me. The others will bring their own stuff.

[Reticuli]

Two unsuccessful attempts (laptop and desktop) at getting v6.5 to work with the MDJ1000 internal sound cards using v1.06 ASIO driver. They work fine as MIDI controllers as far as I can tell, though, and my Rane and Denon mixers are both nice as sound cards. The effective pitch resolution is twice that of the Pioneer CDJ-900, since the Geminis register differing half increments if you wiggle the pitch fader a little. Gemini also gives you many more pitch range settings than Pioneer, so you can use the lowest you need to optimize resolution. Not Hanpin pitch res, but usable functionality in MIDI beyond 8% pitch range. It also demonstrates that the Gemini pitch slider at 16 and 24% is indeed capable of effectively twice the resolution they seem to be getting off a thumb drive. 16% range seems stuck at just 0.1 increments regardless if you wiggle it or not.

[Reticuli]

Spoke too soon, I guess. I had an instance of a deck randomly resetting or rebooting or just switching to CD on its own. Never had that happen when I previously tested MIDI. Not sure what exactly caused it mid-set when I was simply trying to back out of lower VDJ folders. It lost MIDI and upon putting it back in that mode, audio interface assignments and deck assignments had reset and switched around randomly. However, that laptop is an old and slow dual core unit, and though it's fine with the CDJ-900s and Hanpins, the Geminis are doing pretty elaborate HID screen stuff. One of these days I will try them on the i7 desktop upstairs again. Anyway, that's enough testing MIDI for me. I will go back to standalone.

[JeanSB]

They seem to be improving their product but the fact is that.. They clearly don't know what they do exactly... they look like some untrained retarded guys trying to take off an Airbus plane
DJ equipment need to be serious, rock solid and stable. It's not always possible with the price range Gemini is on, so that's why in my sense they should stay simple and remove some functions that "amateur DJs" (those who buy this crap) don't really need because they clearly showed their lack of ressources.