new to MF twister: how to send other CC values than 0/127 on toggle?
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  1. #1
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    Default new to MF twister: how to send other CC values than 0/127 on toggle?

    Hello,

    I'm really confused about how I can program the MF twister in a more flexible way, if there is any.

    For example, for using the MF twister with my Squarp Pyramid via PyraMIDI implementation

    ( )

    I want to program 16 buttons like this:

    -all must have same MIDI channel
    -all must have same CC: CC0
    -all must have other CC0 values, from 1 to 16

    I'm really not finding in the manual how I can program this! The config software doesn't allow this as wel (only CC number, not value to be programmed. Only min and max values - 0/127 - are being used on the Twister).

    Who can help me with this please?

    In the manual they talk about sending values to specific MF Twister channels, but I really don't see how I can program another CC value to each of the buttons that must have the same CC number (0 in this case).

    Why not make this possible in the config / editor software? Would be so easy. I don't get it really...


    Also, the 'sequencer' function is just mentioned in the MIDI channels overview, but further you don't find any information about it in the manual, that is quite confusing for some subjects...

    Thanks a lot!!

  2. #2
    DJTT Mapping Ninja Moderator Stewe's Avatar
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    You answered your question.

    However it is possible to convert velocity values via a 3rd party MIDI Translator apps.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewe View Post
    You answered your question.
    .
    Thanks,

    I'm glad I answered my question myself, but that's not a really helpful reply, I'm afraid.

    I'm not a hyper expert with MIDI, but I have quite some experience with controlling hardware synths via MIDI, DAW, MIDI controllers,... also in live situations. So I'm sorry but programming this controller, or at least beyond the limits of the config software, really is confusing for me right now. Thanks for understanding!

    Maybe you can give me (and others) a step-by-step example on how each knob of the Twister can be programmed like described above:

    each of the buttons has:

    - the same Channel
    - the same CC number
    - a different CC value

    I really can't figure it out how to make it work, I'm sorry...

    - how do I have to choose the active button where to send the info to?
    - what program do I need for this?
    - on what exact channel do I need to send this?

    I see in the manual channels to send stuff like a lot of options with colors / flashlights / etc... but there's no clear example of how to send just a specific CC value to one specific knob, so that this value gets saved in the Twister's memory and so used standalone. The channel descriptions are not really clear to me!

    In the manual I've read something about a specific channel for 'sequencer': what sequencer? There's no where else in the manual other information about a sequencer, you know. Such things make me scratch my head also.

    Things are not very clear for non-tractor users. I'm probably not the only live musician / performer that uses other, less common or not DJ-orientated software / hardware to use the Twister with. Thanks for your understanding!

    I also don't understand why it's just not made possible to program CC values in the config software, that would make programming setups like this a lot easier, no?

    Now you need to connect some other gear or program to the twister and do some magic, that I'm not aware of yet, to get it working.

    Or maybe a link to a video or clear instructions somewhere would be nice too, thank you.

    I lost already too much time with re-reading the manual a couple of times and experimenting with MIDI translator apps (I'm using MIDI PIPE on mac) without any success, and that's quite frustrating.

    Thanks in advance for the extra info on this!

  4. #4
    DJTT Mapping Ninja Moderator Stewe's Avatar
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    Oh, it sounds like you never install the Midifighter Utility... I'm so sorry.
    It sounded like you've answered your question because the CC values couldn't be changed via the Utility (only Ch number and CC number can)

    Quote Originally Posted by loekazz View Post
    Maybe you can give me (and others) a step-by-step example on how each knob of the Twister can be programmed like described above:

    each of the buttons has:

    - the same Channel
    - the same CC number
    - a different CC value
    The Channel and CC information can be found under the "Encoder Settings" in the Midifighter Utility.



    You can not use the Multiple tool for this so assigning different Channel and CC number should be done one by one knob. If you still have troubles with this please let me know which channel and CC number needs to be set and I can provide you a midifighter settings file (.MFS) that you can import in to the Utility software and send those new settings to the Midifighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by loekazz View Post
    I really can't figure it out how to make it work, I'm sorry...

    - how do I have to choose the active button where to send the info to?
    - what program do I need for this?
    - on what exact channel do I need to send this?
    1) You need to click on each Encoder in the Midifighter Utility so select it before you can go ahead and edit it's settings available.
    2) You can download the MFU from Twister Product page here: downloads and support section

    Quote Originally Posted by loekazz View Post
    In the manual I've read something about a specific channel for 'sequencer': what sequencer? There's no where else in the manual other information about a sequencer, you know. Such things make me scratch my head also.
    It is built in sequencer in to the firmware. You can enter the Sequencer mod by pressing both center side buttons simultaneously. You can check following video on how we mapped it to Traktor - I know you are using it with the external hardware but it is still relevant as it shows you the layout and all built in functions.



    Quote Originally Posted by loekazz View Post
    I lost already too much time with re-reading the manual a couple of times and experimenting with MIDI translator apps (I'm using MIDI PIPE on mac) without any success, and that's quite frustrating.

    Thanks in advance for the extra info on this!
    I understand. If your setup involves a PC/Mac and you have a copy of Bome's Midi Translator I could help you with the template that converts CC values.

    Let me know if you have more questions!

  5. #5
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    Hello stew, thank you very much for trying to help me out!

    but,
    Quote Originally Posted by Stewe View Post
    Oh, it sounds like you never install the Midifighter Utility...
    that's not the case, I did!

    I know already how to use the utility. It's very easy so that's not the problem, but that software isn't complete. That's the problem!

    There's really no way to program CC VALUES in the MF utitility.

    Yes, I can set the MIDI channel of each knob and the CC number, but not a specific value as I described above.

    The software doesn't make this possible, it only offers MIDI Channel and CC Number to program, exactly like you showed with the screenshots.

    Again:

    how can I program following toggles on midi ch 10 with CC#0:

    button 1: MIDI CHANNEL 10 - CC0 - CC VALUE 1
    button 2: MIDI CHANNEL 10 - CC0 - CC VALUE 2
    botton 3: MIDI CHANNEL 10 - CC0 - CC VALUE 3


    etc...

    with the software, you can only do this:

    button 1: MIDI CHANNEL 10 - CC0
    button 2: MIDI CHANNEL 10 - CC0
    botton 3: MIDI CHANNEL 10 - CC0

    and then you only have the option to hold that CC (sending max value of 127), or to toggle it (alternating between values 0 and 127).

    there seems to be NO way to program other values then 0 / 127, you see...

    it's driving me nuts!!


    So if there's a way to do the mapping I've mentioned above with Bome's MIDI translator (that I don't have yet) or with MIDI PIPE, I'd be very glad yes, thanks!

  6. #6
    DJTT Mapping Ninja Moderator Stewe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loekazz View Post
    So if there's a way to do the mapping I've mentioned above with Bome's MIDI translator (that I don't have yet) or with MIDI PIPE, I'd be very glad yes, thanks!
    I'm not very familiar with MIDI Pipe but I'm pretty sure that Bomes will work around the issue.

    I will provide a Bomes template and instructions and what you could do is download free version of BMT to test things.

  7. #7
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    Thanks,

    I'd be glad to find a way to work around this, so if you could help me that would be great.

    I still wonder why it isn't made possible in the software, it should be not that difficult to make an update of the software with more direct access to program CC values...

    It's quite complex to do it with other hardware / software. I have an old Edirol MIDI controller that is even capable of sending different CC values with the button switches / different ranges than "0-127" to toggle etc...

    The MIDI fighter ain't cheap, but it's very well-build and very good for live use, but the programming software just lacks some functionality for advanced mapping.

    I really hope there will be future updates where this will be possible.


    Meanwhile looking forward to your Bome MIDI translator workaround / template, thans for this again.

  8. #8
    DJTT Mapping Ninja Moderator Stewe's Avatar
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    Done! Attached is .MFS and .BMTP files for you to test
    I also made a step by step instructions to walk you through the setup process.

    Download:
    Twister BMT Project 0.1.0.zip

    STEP 1)


    Download and unzip Midifighter Settings file. Open Midifighter Utility and import provided .MFS file then click on "Send to Midifighter".



    This will set your Encoders in Bank 1 to Ch.2 and CC Numbers are set from 0 to 15. (which is same as Twister's factory settings)

    You can now close the Utility if you are Windows PC user because unlike Mac systems we can not share same MIDI Port with multiple applications.

    STEP 2)

    Download and unzip BMT Settings file. Open Bome MIDI Translator and import provided BMT Project file via File --> Open --> select "Twister BMT Project" file (.BMTP). Once opened, you should see 16 button translators (one for each push encoder) as following:



    STEP 3)

    In order for Twister and BMT to communicate you will need to select Project Default MIDI In-Port and Out-Port.
    Click on midi connector icon located in top-right corner to bring up the "MIDI INPUT" and "MIDI OUTPUT" section.
    For the Input device select your Midi Fighter Twister and for the Output device be sure to check "Bome MIDI Translator 1 Virtual Out". See following example:



    The result of midi CC value conversion can be observed in "Log Window". The following example shows information sent out of Bome for each on 16 encoders started from top-left and all the way to last encoder (bottom-right):

    Code:
    1: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 00 7F
    2: IN   0.0  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:127 (0x7F)
    3: OUT  0.0  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:1 (0x01)
    4: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 00 00
    5: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 01 7F
    6: IN   0.1  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:1 (0x01) and value:127 (0x7F)
    7: OUT  0.1  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:2 (0x02)
    8: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 01 00
    9: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 02 7F
    10: IN   0.2  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:2 (0x02) and value:127 (0x7F)
    11: OUT  0.2  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:3 (0x03)
    12: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 02 00
    13: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 03 7F
    14: IN   0.3  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:3 (0x03) and value:127 (0x7F)
    15: OUT  0.3  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:4 (0x04)
    16: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 03 00
    17: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 04 7F
    18: IN   0.4  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:4 (0x04) and value:127 (0x7F)
    19: OUT  0.4  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:5 (0x05)
    20: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 04 00
    21: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 05 7F
    22: IN   0.5  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:5 (0x05) and value:127 (0x7F)
    23: OUT  0.5  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:6 (0x06)
    24: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 05 00
    25: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 06 7F
    26: IN   0.6  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:6 (0x06) and value:127 (0x7F)
    27: OUT  0.6  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:7 (0x07)
    28: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 06 00
    29: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 07 7F
    30: IN   0.7  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:7 (0x07) and value:127 (0x7F)
    31: OUT  0.7  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:8 (0x08)
    32: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 07 00
    33: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 08 7F
    34: IN   0.8  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:8 (0x08) and value:127 (0x7F)
    35: OUT  0.8  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:9 (0x09)
    36: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 08 00
    37: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 09 7F
    38: IN   0.9  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:9 (0x09) and value:127 (0x7F)
    39: OUT  0.9  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:10 (0x0A)
    40: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 09 00
    41: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0A 7F
    42: IN   0.10  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:10 (0x0A) and value:127 (0x7F)
    43: OUT  0.10  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:11 (0x0B)
    44: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0A 00
    45: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0B 7F
    46: IN   0.11  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:11 (0x0B) and value:127 (0x7F)
    47: OUT  0.11  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:12 (0x0C)
    48: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0B 00
    49: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0C 7F
    50: IN   0.12  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:12 (0x0C) and value:127 (0x7F)
    51: OUT  0.12  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:13 (0x0D)
    52: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0C 00
    53: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0D 7F
    54: IN   0.13  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:13 (0x0D) and value:127 (0x7F)
    55: OUT  0.13  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:14 (0x0E)
    56: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0D 00
    57: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0E 7F
    58: IN   0.14  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:14 (0x0E) and value:127 (0x7F)
    59: OUT  0.14  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:15 (0x0F)
    60: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0E 00
    61: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0F 7F
    62: IN   0.15  Control Change on ch. 2 with CC#:15 (0x0F) and value:127 (0x7F)
    63: OUT  0.15  Control Change on ch. 10 with CC#:0 (0x00) and value:16 (0x10)
    64: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B1 0F 00
    STEP 4)

    Open your DAW of choice and under MIDI Device settings be sure to select "Bome MIDI Translator 1 Virtual Out" as a MIDI In-Port and test. You can also route midi from BMT in to the midi monitor such as MIDI-OX to test if output is properly configured in Bome.

    Let me know if you need more help with this.
    Cheers,

  9. #9
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    Thanks for all this already,

    I've read this info quickly, but as I understand this app is just translating the datastream 'live', no? In other words: you need the app and the (virtual) connections to be open all the time, so you also need your computer for this?

    To be more clear: I was hoping to use the MF Twister in my computer-less setup. I'm using only hardware sequencers / MIDI controllers / synths / .... No laptop, no DAW so no Ableton, no Tractor, for my live setup...

    I use my macbook only to record stuff and to program some things into the internal memory of my gear.

    That's why I want to also program the settings into the twisters' internal memory, in order to use it completely standalone, you see.

    I was hoping to be able to do that with the editor software. As we can store the channel / CC number without any problem already, I thought I would be able to program CC values, other than 0/127, into the internal memory as well, but unfortunately this ain't possible as far as I can see...

    Other (and much older) MIDI controllers are able to do this, just by programming settings with it's own 'operating system' or by a good software editor via the computer...

    I hope this really will be made possible in the future, otherwise the MF twister won't be of any use to me, I'm afraid...
    Last edited by loekazz; 05-15-2018 at 05:44 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default computerless MIDI Translator

    There is a solution, but it involves even more money. Bome sells a small hardware BomeBox which can run MIDI Translator projects. It does many many other things as well.

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