Musical/Synth Combo Pointers

[MartinVasa]

Hey people!

I am very keen and really wanna learn different styles. I have always been a guitarist and played in indie/alternative bands but after getting fed up with with the rest of the band being lazy gits I thought I would try going my own way down the production route.

My issue is that I can't get my head around the actual constructions of the elements. I get the whole layering synths, using varying sounds etc, but am struggling with the construction of bass and synth lines. There seems to be plenty of pointers on getting sounds in Sylenth, Massive etc etc but not much about the actual writing of the lines. I think I am complicating the approach by trying to transfer more complex guitar/bass lines onto synths but then it just sounds muddled and messy.

Anyone got any pointers or know any good sites etc or the actual writing of the parts? It's not entirely a musical issue, but rather how the musical element and the synth layers combine. This seems like a huge oversight out the in tutorial-land as there is an assumption that if you create the synth sound you will know how to write and layer the lines, or vice versa. Nothing out there on how the two work together. That I can find, at least.

[olisharp]

the construction of bass and synth lines

I'm not really sure how to answer your question but I'll have a go!

I'm guessing you're familiar with chord progressions as a guitarist, so maybe start your composition with a 4 bar chord progression. Sounds that work well with chords are stabs, plucks, piano sounds, and strings / super saws.
Bassline - the root note of each chord? Can be long and sustained, or a stab to fit in the gaps between the kick drums.
Synth line - this is how you draw the listener from one chord to the next, and is the part you can whistle or hum.

Dance music is often incredibly simple, so don't be trying to write some epic business when you're starting out! Basslines might be just the root note, a 5th, and a 7th. You can do some good stuff with just these 3 notes.

Try writing the music, then find a sound to fit the pattern, so you'll know if you need a short and stabby, or long and sustained etc.

Do you have a midi keyboard? 25 keys is enough to write a melody and baseline - though a bit tricky for chord progressions!

I find writing using the mouse and piano roll editor in my DAW pretty uninspiring, and when I'm using a keyboard can come up with ideas a lot faster.

I read and interview with a famous producer (can't remember who!) who was not great at the keyboard, so decided what key his track was going to be in, then put little blu-tack dots on the keys of the notes for that scale so he could bust out tunes quickly without getting held up in learning scales.

Or you could just write in A minor - all the white notes, super easy!

Try and get out of your guitarist headspace as much as possible, or if you don't want to do that, Ableton has this great audio to midi function so you record yourself playing the parts on guitar, then in one click they become midi. You can get a free 30 day demo from their website.

The final option I'll suggest is to download some midi packs from sample sites like loop masters, using these might help you get your head around what works.

Actually, on Beatport there's a remix competition that comes with midi parts in an Ableton Session, I think it's the Sian - Shame Cube one.

[robbyluca]

I don't really understand exactly what you're having trouble with but I'll try to help out with what I think you meant.

You need to EQ each instrument (example. bass and lead). For example, lets say you have a bass at 100-500 hz and the lead from 500 to 10 000 hz. They're not overlapping so it shouldn't sound muddy if each instrument by itself sounds good. Cut off the high end of the bass and the low end of the lead.

[Nick V]

When it comes to composition, different styles lend themselves to different composition techniques. E.g for a hip hop beat it's pretty common to start with a sample loop and drum kit and build up the track by getting a nice complimentary rhythm, then basically riffing off the sample to get bass, additional melodies, etc. vs. a techno track which almost always seems to start with the 4/floor kick gets built up by layering drums, synths and other crap until there's enough to layers to keep the thing going when you start arranging it.

Do you know what genre(s) you are trying to get into? There's certainly an interest in the indie dance thing at the moment which seems to lend itself to more traditional song writing. That might be a place to start as a guitarist. You could try to create a remix of a song you've already written.

I'll say the other thing about coming at dance music from a guitar background is that other than music theory it doesnt really help a lot. I know because I did the same thing decades ago and I had to unlearn a lot of the way that guitarists think. You most definitely will not be able to transfer more complex guitar/bass lines onto synths. They are just different instruments. I think the best real instrument to understand to make good beats is a drum set. Unless you're doing the most basic 4/floor stuff you're going to have to learn how to create tension and release, syncopation, fills, etc. with drums.