Mixing advice

I am thinking about moving my setup from 2 to 4 decks (in traktor) I have a vci-100 and am currently running ean's latest tsi (fw 1.2 tho, and I have yet to get to try out 1.6, girlfriend has lodged complaints that we don't spend enough time together). I am decent at mixing with two decks, but I am wondering if I should spend more time mixing with two decks and trying to get better mixing with two decks (better as in more complex stuff, ie loops + multi effect fades, and just learning to understand music mixing better (theoretically but through practice)), or if I should move to 4 decks and try to get better with that?
NIKNAK

I think you should start a new thread for this. In fact, I am going to do this for you.

Well thats the approach i am currently taking, rather than having less control over 4 decks i opt for greater control over two decks - i personally feel the VCI isnt suited to decent 4 deck control but this is largely a personal thing.

Tied in with using Ableton as a looping device i can do alot of the stuff guys are using 4 deck for and them some.

i use an m-audio Uc-33e w/ oxygen8 for my controls and can comfortably mix 4 decks simulatenously no problem - mind you it took a lot of practice to get to this point.

is the problem that your vci-100 is limited in controls? if that's the case you should get an additional midi controller, it'll help out your game big time.

oh bento has enough controllers

Yes it is a lack of ammount of controls thing mainly - if i were to implement deck C and D at this time it would be taking the place of deck a and b when i engage them which is a concept i am not terribly fond of. That means i would have to use alot of soft-takeover which i peronally dont like.

Ill upgrade to 4 decks when i have the hardware that lets me use my controllerism techniques on 4 decks comfortably all at the same time.

Currently i use a Vestax VCI-100, a Stanton scs 3d aka dascratch and an arcade button controller made by midifidler to control 2 traktor decks + two virtual looping decks in ableton, personally i think this is pushing the hardware as it is without adding deck c and d.

My style is in the on the fly rearangments of tracks as opposed to a richie hawtin style layering of tracks - you have to remember i mix predominantly drum and bass, so the layering method that works well for minimal doesnt doesnt work as well on this sort of music.

My setup revolves around using every kind of digital beat juggling technique under the sun - cue's jump, beatjumps, live looping, beatmashing and soon ill be implementing clists reaktor beatlookup as opposed to laying lots of material. When i have the hardware where can use all of those techniques, all at the same time on 4 decks then ill change to a 4 deck solution.

That all that said currently i have 2xtraktors decks and 2x Ableton channels so i do have plenty of layering power when it is needed - i can load a song, get a loop from a song going in ableton which frees that deck up to grab another part of the song or to load up another track up into the deck.

Using a mixture of Clists beatlookup and just simple clip retriggering in Ableton i will be able to remanipulate the live loop again :)

I am quite capable of making my hardware control another 2 decks in traktor ontop of what i am already doing but those sorts of preset switches(bomes lingo) aka modifiers(traktor lingo) ontop of what i already have just wouldnt feel right for me at all - it would be an excessive use of soft-takeover which would end up confusing the hell out of me as every time i switched to deck C or D half of the faders/knobs would be in the wrong position.

The use of more rotaries might seem to be a smarter option than the absolute knobs/faders on the vci, but however i strongly rotaries lack the haptic feedback needed to perform controllerism.

Ill go probably go 4 decks and 2 more channels in Ableton when better suited hardware comes out or failing that when i build my own rig from scratch.

I'd recommend purchasing a secondary MIDI controller if you're going to work on 4 decks. With just a VCI, IMO, it's too much hassle / confusion / soft-takeover all over the place haha.

Myself I use a Trigger Finger in combination with my VCI. The trigger finger has 4 of everything - 4 faders, and 4 rows of 4 pads (plus 8 knobs) so I mapped the controls I use the most on it to that.

Each row of buttons is assigned Load / Loop / Cue Play / Cue Pause, so I have that control at my fingertips for all 4 decks, without having to switch MIDI pages. As well, I use the 4 faders for volume control for each deck.

It's interesting how your setup will direct the way you mix. With four decks, you can't play four full songs at once. I came to realise that to keep the soundstage from becoming cluttered, the easiest way to do things is to really know your tracks and find good points to loop each. By layering each deck over the other, you should form a complete soundstage without any frequencies cancelling each other out. Loops are key!

So what I usually do is to mix my first two decks like normal, and then setup a loop in my third. And maybe in my fourth deck as well. They'll be looping and playing but muted. Once everything is synced and playing, it's just a matter of messing with my four volume faders to bring things in/out of the track. Combined with FX it makes for interesting mixes.

At the same time you really need to be on the ball in terms of song selection, and especially knowing what song to mix next. Because with 3 or 4 decks, you just burn through songs, it's way more than just simple A to B mixing now. So you really need to think ahead.

EDIT: The techniques used behind mixing 4 decks versus mixing 2 decks are rather different IMO. You might as well jump into mixing with more than 4 decks to get a feel for it. The first time I did it, I didn't understand it for the life of me. I'm a lot better now and I'm getting better everyday. Two decks was just getting so boring, so playing with 4 decks is re-invigorating and provides a lot more challenges.

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Originally Posted by miyuru

Each row of buttons is assigned Load / Loop / Cue Play / Cue Pause, so I have that control at my fingertips for all 4 decks, without having to switch MIDI pages. As well, I use the 4 faders for volume control for each deck.

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What about pitch controls? Do you just leave that on the VCI or what or how do you do it? Im trying to do the same thing as the OP and am thinking I want to prob buy an Akai MPD24 and use it like you use your Trigger Finger. Just trying to work out how this would work out best.

i don't think that 4-decks are possible (without trainwrecking) without syncing with just manually beatmatching... i mean of course it should be possible, but it would be soooo pressuring to do that during a live set :)

but you can use the pitch controls on the vci for fx (that's what i use them for).