MAPPING IDEA (need help to pull it off...)

So I was looking today at the novation twitch. Sexy. Right? Right. Onward.

My fav part was the banks of pads at the bottom that gives ALL 8 HOTCUES. This is what grabbed my attention over other controllers like the JockeyIIIME and S2 etc.

Anyway, I'm using a Launchpad (and TP2) and ofc I have 8hc/track (that's easy)

I'm wondering if it would be possible to use the top 3 rows like the 12 buttons on the twitch - 4 banks of 8 pads each.

This, with a play/pause, sync, monitor, and ... uh ... not sure what button4 would be for... what am I missing...?

Anyway, can this be done?

If so, how, and help!! :cool:

those 12 pads at the bottom are very cool, i think the 4 banks are for slicer/cues/loops+something else on the twitch?

i started thinking about this a few days ago to implement in my midimasher. no real way of doing it without middleware software between traktor and the controller unless the 4 buttons just act as toggle modifiers without full led feedback.

they basically act like 2 mini 4x3 controllers within the overall controller each with independant pages/layers.

currently my code has builtin layer control/recall for any controller but here we need to independant sub-layers as changing the layer on one doesn't affect the other or the overall controller, which might itself be switching between layers (maybe not on the twitch - not sure - but would want that on the LP probably)

they're sort of like 2 midifighters in 4banks mode (with 1 row of pads missing) which i can emulate at the moment - but that code just sends out the standard midifighter midi messages to their own virtual midi port - so means hacking in traktor tsi's to use them for anything else - which i wouldnt' want to have to do, so i need a better solution...

so i want to be able to define sub-controllers within a control surface, in this case those two 4x3 areas (or maybe make it a 4x4 or whatever) with independant layer page/control which could then be changed via the top 4 buttons.

each time i think i've got all the functionality in midimasher that i want to create my ultimate mapping from all my controllers i think of something that is missing :p

i don't suppose even automap can do something like this - so would be pretty cool to have it.

an alternative use would be to divide one page of the LP into two halves for decks A and B but have a toggle button on each side that switches all the controlls for that half to C for A and D for B kind of thing... rather than having one page for A+B and a diff page for C+D....

ho hum...

you always ofc use two midifiers... each with values from 1 to 4, for each deck. create toggle buttons on the first row that change the values of those modifiers and then put a check in for the value of the modifiers for each thing mapped to or from the other 2 rows.

it would probably take me longer to come up with that mapping than to add the needed fucntionality to my midimasher - and i route all data to traktor through it now anyway - but in theory that should work... ?

Actually quite easy...

take a look at my attachement and see if you understand it.

The midi outs are mappable but it takes time and patience to do.

That said the effect module of my apc mapping (the one attached) is not entirely like the twitch.
To map the twitch you would have to change the four modifier states I have mapped to use other functions...

It is easy and doable, but it would take some time.

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Originally Posted by zestoi

they're sort of like 2 midifighters in 4banks mode

i don't suppose even automap can do something like this - so would be pretty cool to have it.

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I tried with automap with no success. You are spot on about the midifighters, except they are toggle on the twitch. Like the banks on the LP for Live8, but not for the whole controller.

As for your APC mapping, you have to hold down modifiers, right? or can you assign them to toggle buttons?

Even so, if you toggle on M1, then you hit M2 does it toggle off M1? And can the LED feedback handle this?

On the Twitch it must be a hardware switch between those 4 bank buttons, right? If they are midi assignable, then we could just read the twitch tsi...hrm... maybe that was the place to start... I realized that this is what I really wanted all along from my LP. If I can't get it to do that, I'm going to sell it lol. At my wits ends here :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by LmnLm3

I tried with automap with no success. You are spot on about the midifighters, except they are toggle on the twitch. Like the banks on the LP for Live8, but not for the whole controller.

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they're toggle on the MF too - u press the top buttons to change banks. done in MF firmware tho.

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Even so, if you toggle on M1, then you hit M2 does it toggle off M1? And can the LED feedback handle this?

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my idea was to use one modifier for the whole of the left set of controls and one for the right set. so say you chose M1 for the left set of 12 buttons, if you press the top left button it sets M1 to 0, then if u press the 2nd bank change button it sets M1 to 2 and so on for the other 2 buttons. so then you add a condition of M1=1 or M1=2 depending on which 'mode' the controls are for.

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On the Twitch it must be a hardware switch between those 4 bank buttons, right? If they are midi assignable, then we could just read the twitch tsi...hrm... maybe that was the place to start... I realized that this is what I really wanted all along from my LP. If I can't get it to do that, I'm going to sell it lol. At my wits ends here :rolleyes:

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i presume that the bank change is done in the hardware yep - hence me wanting to put the same kind of functionality in my midimasher so i don't need to mess around with a traktor tsi at all.

Sorry, I am confused as to what you want...

In serato however the twitch controller has hard-mapped midi-messages for all functions.
How it works in Traktor I have no idea of.

How I imagine it works is that the banks toggles midi notes. So let's say bank 1 toggles ch1 note c1~+11, bank 2 = ch2 c1~+11, bank 3 = ch3 etc.
So in traktor assigning the functions would be as easy as mapping ins and outs to all the different channels and notes. No real hassle except that you would have to remember to switch to the right bank when mapping.

In the tsi i provided over I have simulated the same behavior.

Except. The channels are not elevated in hardware, but through modifiers.

If you have seen an apc40 you'll see that it has almost the same layout close to all the faders. There's 16 by 3 grid for activate, solo, mute and 8 track banks over this grid.
This makes it possible to simulate the twitch. The top row acts as banks and the 3 rows of small buttons underneath acts as pads.

I have split the 8 bank buttons into two modifiers m7 and m8 both are mirrors of each other. M7 is deck A and M8 is deck B. They do not at all interact with each other.

The way it works is that,

Pressing bank 1 sets modifier 7 to 0, the midi out will only respond to a m7=0 state.
bank 1 also changes effects in the effect panel and any other preset.

The 3 rows of buttons corresponding to deck A (button 1-4) is mapped only to react to m7=0 the same with their leds.

pressing bank 2 ups modifier 7 to 1 all buttons i use for this is restricted to m7.

and so on.

If you want this to work for 4 decks all you have to do is add a button which sets m7 to an unused state 5-7 in my case. and also add an extra modifier for each deck that duplicates the m7 but activating the desired deck and not the one activated by m7.

I hope that made some sense.

Just know that I don't see why this is impossible at all..
I don't have a midi masher so I have no way of making it for you...

EDIT:

I see zestoi answered you with the exact same thing.
What he mentions about modifiers is the correct way to do it.

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Originally Posted by Subconcussion

Just know that I don't see why this is impossible at all..
I don't have a midi masher so I have no way of making it for you...

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midimasher is my middleware app - kind of bomes/automap ish i guess... lets you route between any devices/apps as needed with custom lua code for more complex stuff.

i got fed up of using the traktor mapping window basically - so i now use a static tsi that has all the stuff i might need to use from code. the mac app xtreme mapping makes it a lot less hassle ofc - but still doesnt' let u do stuff that u couldnt already do in traktor itself. tho i def would buy it if i had a mac :p

I didn't properly understand how modifiers worked before.

That's not a standard MIDI concept, is it? If so, I feel like a dolt. Thought that was a Traktor thing.

If Mods are toggle-able with LED out then yeah, this should be easy...

Part of my frustration with the LP is also that it crashes my laptop, so it's useless right now for doing any DJing. Might go analogue til I can figure out what controller to use. On my desktop it works fine, but laptop with Win7 32bit Live8/Traktor start up fine, and it sees the LP (tried both drivers) but when the LP is chosen as a device and any LED lights up on the device, that's the end of it. Memory leak somewhere, I suppose. Can't seem to debug it, though. Others on the web have shared this issue with no resolution, so I'm not alone :( If not anaolgue (and later use an RMX for dvs.... can you do that in traktor?) than I might end up getting the damn twitch anyway. Would be a shame, the LP is so nice and cheap and simple.

/rant

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Originally Posted by LmnLm3

I didn't properly understand how modifiers worked before.

That's not a standard MIDI concept, is it? If so, I feel like a dolt. Thought that was a Traktor thing.

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modifiers are a traktor thing but you can use any midi input to change modifiers ofc, like pressing a toggle button on the LP etc.

If Mods are toggle-able with LED out then yeah, this should be easy...

no clue about your crashes as i haven't had any issue with my LP and win7.