Cheap BEHRINGER Class D Amps

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Originally Posted by Shishdisma

It's really kind of funny, because absolutely nothing you just said matters in the slightest in any practical setting, outside of a sound engineer's circle jerk or a forum. Punters don't care about the clarity or vibrancy of an amp's output, nor do they care about the exact power levels the amps are putting out, they just want music to play from the speakers, and if a cheap amp does that relatively well, then more power to the purchaser's wallet. Reliability is moot, it's a class D amp, there isn't much that can go out outside of QC. And there's a 3 year warranty on everything.

High end amps and cabs exist because people who can hear the difference are the ones that are buying them. No average person cares about what a sound engineer thinks, they just want them to make the music play. If that can be accomplished on the cheap, then so be it.

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I have to say you both have valid points.

As an engineer, I would never roll out with anything less than my Crown amp rack for any large scale production. My job is to amplify the artist, they don't care about any of the particulars, they don't care if my amp has a three year warranty and I can get a replacement shipped by the end of the week. If my rack goes down, the show doesn't happen, I lose work.

As a hobbyist, I have no problems using Behringer gear. I've got a set of B1031's hooked up to my iMac, awesome little rig for iTunes and gaming. I also have no issue with recommending Behringer gear to customers that just want to jam some tunes in their basement.

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Originally Posted by rotebass

I have to say you both have valid points.

As an engineer, I would never roll out with anything less than my Crown amp rack for any large scale production. My job is to amplify the artist, they don't care about any of the particulars, they don't care if my amp has a three year warranty and I can get a replacement shipped by the end of the week. If my rack goes down, the show doesn't happen, I lose work.

As a hobbyist, I have no problems using Behringer gear. I've got a set of B1031's hooked up to my iMac, awesome little rig for iTunes and gaming. I also have no issue with recommending Behringer gear to customers that just want to jam some tunes in their basement.

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Yeah, reliability is really kind of a Sword of Damocles when it comes to Behringer gear. Their new equipment is supposedly brought in with a leap in QC, and with that warranty, they're standing by it. But it's going to take a bit of time to prove they are reliable, and even more to convince the snobby engineers they aren't just cheap junk because QSC didn't make it.

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Originally Posted by Shishdisma

Yeah, reliability is really kind of a Sword of Damocles when it comes to Behringer gear. Their new equipment is supposedly brought in with a leap in QC, and with that warranty, they're standing by it. But it's going to take a bit of time to prove they are reliable, and even more to convince the snobby engineers they aren't just cheap junk because QSC didn't make it.

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Which is funny because QSC wasn't always known for quality. The first series of Crown iTechs and XTis all had issues with ribbon cables that rendered the amps inoperable. I always joke that Peavey Blackwidows come with "field replaceable baskets" for a reason :lol:

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Originally Posted by Shishdisma

It's really kind of funny, because absolutely nothing you just said matters in the slightest in any practical setting, outside of a sound engineer's circle jerk or a forum.

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and again... when your behringer gear (if it's even remotely close to the old stuff, it IS a matter of WHEN) breaks down mid gig, explain that your your client. I'm sure once they understand how it shouldn't matter because they aren't sound engineers, they'll be quick to hire you do DJ/do sound for them again in the near future.

As Rotebass said, if it's sitting in my basement, that's one thing, though even then I might not be comfortable investing in an amp that I feel is bound to fail and/or malfunction fairly quickly like most of their other equipment.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25226419/Pho...%2034%20PM.jpg

Bought in 2004, currently sitting behind my couch powering a sub hooked up to my flatscreen. Still waiting for it to fail :)

I had a beheringer mixer some years agao and had it for many years. It needed a cup of coffie spilled inside of it to stop working and the club I usely DJ the have several Beheringer equiptment that have been in use for a long time. I trust them and all equiptmen you tread with a little love will last longer then anything that's just trown around.

I'm excited for Class D amps to start taking off a bit more in the PA market. They're smaller, lighter, cheaper to manufacture, draw less current, and are more reliable than the other classes, and this is something that is well proven and documented in the car audio world. There are virtually no practical disadvantage to going class D.

It seems people have had good experiences with the Peavey IPR's... I'd really like to get my hands on the 7500's when they come out. I just mentally have a hard time trusting something that only weighs... 10 pounds :P

As for Behringer gear... I run four EP2500's, and they have been WELL used over the past 4 years... and I'm not even the original owner. Still no problems. Granted, that series seems to be a bit of a gem for Behringer.

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Originally Posted by sobi

At best, I'd trust this as a home amp to run a series of studio speakers and/or home DJ rigs.

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the later, yes. But I doubt they respond quickly enough to transients to run studio monitors. IDK…maybe. I don't know much about the technical side of class D and I haven't actually AB'd "good" amps with "normal" ones (e.g., Bryston vs. QSC) and might just be repeating snake oil stories.

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Originally Posted by rotebass

I also have no issue with recommending Behringer gear to customers that just want to jam some tunes in their basement.

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That's important. I'd use them for that in a heartbeat. And Behringer knows that. If you're a high-enough level pro that your system dying means that you immediately buying a duplicate at guitar center without caring about the cost……you don't buy Behringer anyway. That's not who they're aiming at, and you'd probably be stupid to buy it.

Running a small system for house/neighborhood/fraternity/whatever parties……I'd give them a shot. But I've also had to do serious cleaning and some repairs on 2 different QSC RMX amps because people keep breaking them somehow. Most of the time, it's dirty gain pots and dust…or soda…or gum somehow. And I'd much rather they were using Behringer than QSC for that. It'd be lighter, easier to deal with, and…well…it's Behringer. If you can't get it to die and be covered either by warranty or GC Pro Coverage right at the end of the warranty period, then IDK what to say.

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Originally Posted by sobi

I might not be comfortable investing in an amp that I feel is bound to fail and/or malfunction fairly quickly like most of their other equipment.

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Do a burn-in test…just like you would on any amp, speaker, or anything else to do with PA gear.

Hook it up and play pink noise at 100dB and leave it alone for 24 hours straight. If it's still running when you get back, you're probably fine. If not, exchange it for a new one. In the US, you don't even have to explain why most of the time.

I've had a small pile of Behringer gear since I got into audio either of my own or that my fraternity owned/owns…mostly xenyx mixers but also some compressors, effects, the much maligned djx700, etc.. Every single piece either failed miserably within a few days or outlasted the warranty.

It'll probably take longer if you need several to run your system than if you used Crowne or QSC or whatever, but that's a big part of what you pay for.

Class D has been around for over 10 years (Lab Gruppen and Camco) I used the sell them back then. It's nothing new. The only new thing about class D is the technology has become cheaper and the bottom end of the market now has a look in. Just because it's a class D does not make it any more bullet proof than an older bi-polar, mossfet, or any other class of amp. Behringer will never be a professional brand for professionals. For the average hobbiest yeah it's okay but there is better and more reliable gear out there. When you have a venue full of punters and your Behringer gear shits itself you will wish you never bought the crap. The fact of the matter is you may not get paid for the gig. The venue may never book you again and the stories spread quickly. Simply not worth it for the sake of another 10-20% outlay. For a small party and bedroom warriors yep go for it however don't expect to be blown away with its quality both in build and sonics.

I love how this thread goes from "who needs a good cheap amp?" to "you are an idiot using that $400 Behringer for the Daft Punk show" crazy.