WHY do so many people here use and suggest the S2/S4??

There are tons of great controllers out there dude... I would recommend just about ANY controller out there before the S2/S4 just on build-quality... That's not even mentioning the even worse part which is the "software integration".

As far as an all-in-one controller that is meant for the same things an S2/S4 is meant for... Vestax is amazing... so's the Pioneer DDJ-T1... And actually my current favorite all-in-one (after the vci-400) is actually a Numark, surprisingly... The 4-track is amazing.

Honestly though, the market is finally going to modular, which I love. Check out behringer's new CMD line... amazing. As soon as that shit comes out, I'm never touching an all-in-one again.

yea yea ive seen them all. the behringers line wont be out for a few months anyway, plus the other ones you mentioned retail for at least $200 more than the S4 and doesn't include software. apples to apples my friend

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Originally Posted by Emery

So now that we know S4's aren't made (or priced) like Pioneer.. what do YOU recommend?

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For what it's worth I don't think the pioneer T1 is any better quality than the s4. 4-trak and vci-400 felt best. If you want better quality than that at some point you have to step away and just get a hardware mixer.

Personally, I hate jog wheels, so the Twitch is my weapon of choice. I also prefer using Itch so I have a similar interface / library mgmt as my (serato) DVS setup.

All subjective though - you're really lucky if you get a chance to try them all out. That vci-400 does look really nice...

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Originally Posted by Emery

yea yea ive seen them all. the behringers line wont be out for a few months anyway, plus the other ones you mentioned retail for at least $200 more than the S4 and doesn't include software. apples to apples my friend

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What? no....
S4 is $800
4 track is $850
DDJ-T1 is $750
VCI-400 is $900


Also, if $200 is going to make the decision of what your main kit is going to be.... DJing might not be for you.

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Originally Posted by Saurus

If $200 is going to make the decision of what your main kit is going to be.... DJing might not be for you.

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seriously? $200 I can add an F1, which I did. Now I can use the remix decks and the whole setup is STILL cheaper than a VCI 400 with TP2.5

But yea I guess If I cant afford the best I should just quit

Retail right now

S4 $800
4Trak $1000
DDJ-T1 $900
VCI - 400 $1000

I don't know why were arguing about this.. anyone with google should have been able to figure that out. But again the software is included with the S4. But I was just trying to answer your original question

I've looked at other controllers, Twitch is interesting but the rest are me-too controllers with no personality and a requirement to spend hours programming them rather than DJ:ing them. As such S2/S4s work from the box and have 95% of the integration I require. I've taken S4s to gigs, works just fine.

Do I smell some kind of frustration about NI taking too much market share rather than an objective analysis?

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Originally Posted by Saurus

There are tons of great controllers out there dude... I would recommend just about ANY controller out there before the S2/S4 just on build-quality...

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Build Quality, shmuild quality!

I've toured around with a Behringer BCR2000, which I packed loosely in my backpack in the same compartment as where I kept my Audio4DJ... It still has to fail on me yet!

And yeah, they said it was cheap, toylike and worst of all, it was `BEHRINGER'!

Same goes for the S4, yeah it's plastic, yeah it's NI, a company that is relatively new on the controller market.
Apart from the USB ninja hack, it's working ultra amazingly for me and still has to die on me yet.

The connector dying is a common thing on the S4/S2, which could:
a) be the result of a child decease of the controller design. (next gen could as well be equipped with another connector)
b) be the result of a user user/owner not being careful enough with his/her equipment.

I had the privilege to test the Pioneer, and what I can tell you, is that it had a more feeble feel to it than the S4. Especially on the jogs.
The EQs and rotaries were not as convenient as those on the S4, placing of the cue/mix rotary is abominable.
Faders had almost the same feel as these of the S4. (Probably both ALPS)

So the Pioneers being better, is just your personal preference.

What I do admit, is that the Pioneer MIDIcontrollers attract/target different DJs. Where the S4/S2 is more of a high tech DJ, loving to loop, cue point juggle and more freaky stuff which may result in more abusive use of the controller, whereas the Pioneer controller DJs usually attract the traditional DJs who transfer to MIDI, but start of in their traditional way of mixing.

Midi is dope...... if you use quality cable and VERY short runs. (I use gold plated connectors and special one direction flow cables at under 1mtr and the two foxes are connected using 30cm cable)

No problems; been using midi since the 80's, for synths, samples... oh the list goes one and on.

It was the shitty early squencers that where slow......... and caused all the problems...

My faderfox DJ2 and DJx are midi and are quick as fuck......... I use as back up if the club dj booth is too small to use my modded VCI 100 ........

Funny thing is I actually play out a lot in Berlin, the home of Ableton, Native Instruments and have never seen anyone use the S2 or S4.

Timecodes are used by about 80% of the digital djs ... others use .... Allen and Heath or Faderfox or VCI 100.

But I guess ........ Berlin is behind in the world club scene.

The question here is if you are shit... no matter what you use you will still be shit!

Mr Golden cannot map talent for you.

Why do you all keep spending money on the latest new controller thinking it will suddenly make you shit hot......... did you change your Technics every six moths to change the colour?

Nothing is perfect... the imperfections make muisc interesting.