no, it is legal, technically its a performance and comes under the same wing as the artists license
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no, it is legal, technically its a performance and comes under the same wing as the artists license
Um, so if I make a mixed CD and hand it out Im not Violating copyright law????Quote:
Originally Posted by djchriswoods.co.uk
Ummm u better check those laws again Sir.
If u r just referring to playing the tracks in a club or rave setting then yeah sure its fine and legal. Kinda, its just the RIAA hasnt gone after DJs.... Yet.
They went after all of the Internet radio shows demanding huge sums of royalties for playing tracks. it wont be long till they come after the live djs.
ok, i will conceed its probably not 100% (or even 1%) above board just tolerated because its an essential part of the industry, but have you ever heard of a record label taking a DJ to court for handing out a demo mix?
i know for a fact that in the example of doing a bootleg remix, aslong as there are less than 1000 copies in circulation, labels don't give a shit. its not worth their effort
Of course not and most poeple would think that is REtarded. Its just u have alot of musicians on this site that feel ANY downloading of torrents is ILLEGAL period its BLACK & WHITE and there is NO GREY. When in fact there is alot of GREY.Quote:
Originally Posted by djchriswoods.co.uk
Also its good for the ANTI-torrent crowed to realize that when they hand out a mixed tape they are doing the same thing as any torrenter does. handing out music for FREE without paying the copyright holder. just cause its HOUSE or TRANCE doesn't mean its not goverended by the same laws as rock & pop. Just cause u can mix the music together and make somthing cool dosnt make it any less legal or illegeal.
When you put it it like that. . . kinda obvious, yeh.
"Is it wrong to steal music u have already bought?"
But you can borrow and use it in fair use, meaning you use it in a way to express a point etc.
<well troden arguement>
But, being a DJ and torrenting music is shooting yourself in the foot, you are stifling the ability for people to make a living out of making alternative music.
If you like something and want to listen to it it, buy it... don't torrent it.
If you already own it on vinyl, I agree then torrenting it is a grey area. Torrent download probably illegal, technically... but morally it is dubious. Sound isn't physical.
The thing about a mix tape is in some respect, you are less likely to be giving it to people who would buy the single on it (mostly).
The people that do want the single, will hear the mix tape and buy it, like hearing something on the radio. So in some sense it's promotion (ish)... I hear a song on a mix I like, I buy it.
I just don't like torrents of music... I used to but when i check my old tracks loads are shity 128s and I just think f*ck it, I'm gonna buy that again.
Me personally, I'd rather buy the music again rather than digitize cause I can't be arsed, or i'll digitize and not be lazy.
Also I like the vinyl record sound, it's almost a treat playing well recorded vinyl rips :)
Buying vinyl gave me a thrill and actually buying music, rather that torrenting it, helps keep that thrill alive, for me.
</well troden arguement>
Piracy is the reason why there is only shit music on mtv... The labels dont take chances with smaller artists and only market artists they can by blunt force get a higher percentage of people to buy the music. Now there are two camps... people who use computers.. and those who dont. The ones who dont are not going to be using itunes or any other service to get digital music... These are the regular people who see a cd in a store and then buy. The selection in the store is again going to have the shelf space with new artists who can by blunt force get exposure.. poster campaign, radio, video , whatever. And then of course classics.
Alot of older people.. who lived through the 70s and 80s had a massive amount of repeat buying.. from vinyl to cassette to cd. And as CDs stuck, we kept getting more and more music as time went on... more and more older stuff appeared on cd. And For people who figured out the cost of a CD being less than 50cents.. and paying 18$ for the album with 4 songs on it... I think this added up to a sort of piracy/unconcious revenge/ even it out kind of feeling. There was a time where I wouldnt even listen to but 5 percent of what I downloaded. It got overwhelming to organize and ended up frustrating me more than anything.. and I just wasnt even listening because I was djing with vinyl.. and already had bought a shitload of electronic stuff.. 800 cds of electronic from 1991-1995. That kept my income so damaged because I just loved all this new music..
Then one day I just deleted my whole library of mp3s... and it was so liberating.
after 1 year of itunes.. I only have 150 songs in my library.. and this is the perfect amount since ive switched to just pure ableton and am making my own music.
Piracy is a strange thing.. I would rather pay 1 penny everytime I listen to a song completly
LOL at 10.99 for imports they can suck it..... J/K kinda.....Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxOne
Ur right 100% man, u really shouldnt DL music fro torrent sites to DJ with. However i think OP has every right to DL music he owns on vinyl instead of having to record it off the vinyl.
I just cant stand some of the comments on here about how its just wrong for OP to DL a song he already owns. The torrent issue is so huge there are many documentary's on the subject as well as countless articles online. Some people are threatened by the technology and while others embrace it. I doubt we can solve the issue here in this fo rum for the entire world, I just wanted some people to think a little outside the box.
LOL, I have been lurking here for ever and finally joined this site based on this forum post. LOL!
Uploading and downloading are two different things.... Uploading is like the girl throwing puppies in the river... Just stupid to attach yourself to the act. So if your caught uploading... then its a big LOL when you conclude you will never fart the same way after your prison sentance.
If you play it in public or are profiting from it, then you must pay for the music you use. If you bought your tunes legally, then use them at will.
If I try to buy a track off a legit site and it's not there, am I allowed to jack it off a torrent site?
99.9% of my music comes from datpiff.com guess i am one of those cunts that never buys music...:rolleyes:
BTW B.o.B just released his mixtape for free...
oh not to mention I bought 2 of his shirts.
oh and I paid for various artist to perform... I drop more on 1 contract than people spent on their whole music library...;)
Check out Lupe Fiasco's discussions, if you can find'em and you'll see labels restrict artists as well. Its a lil' bit this and a lil' bit that.Quote:
Originally Posted by djfrogstar
[ame="http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhFLbDAQdCKWrg4YtC"]Video: Real Shxt For Upcoming Artists: Lupe Fiasco On The Future Of Hip-Hop! + Female University Student Asks Lupe "Why Would U Work With Lil B, Who I Feel Is A Rapper Thats Ruining The Future Of Hip Hop"[/ame]
but the reason those people are on MTV is because they are successful, not because of piracy.
Piracy is the reason why there is only shit music on mtv... The labels dont take chances with smaller artists and only market artists they can by blunt force get a higher percentage of people to buy the music. Now there are two camps... people who use computers.. and those who dont. The ones who d....
Yeah piracy is the reason Weezers last 4 albums sucked. Piracy is the reason green days last album sucked. Piraxcy is also to blame for global warming, obamacare, The bush tx cuts, jersey shore and Hurricane Katrina.
LOL at piracy is the reason MTV sucks. First off, mtv dont show music videos and second, honestly can anyone remember a time in the last 20 years that MTV was actually good. the rare exception being, 120 minutes and AMP.
On the MTV tip, look at yourselves, meteorically. The reason Justin Bieber and Kei$ha are so big is because of PIRACY!... lol just kidden. Its because of piracy! oh got you again :) Its because the general public is very gullible and usually need to be told what to listen to and global warming. Getting a bit off subject aren't we?
^^^ this!Quote:
Originally Posted by deviantdigi
Lol i only bring up global warming as a joke. Im so sick of hearing piracy is ruining the music industry that i am the point i just want to punch people for being so easily lead by the BIG labels & RIAA. When the reason the industry is in trouble is becuase most of the music they release is just crap. Just awful boring crap.
I always crack up when ever i go to this one frieds house, hes always listing to KROQ (u calirfonia folks know what im talking about.). anyways, i always laugh becuase 60 to 80 % of the music they play is from 1995-1999 with some random 2000 stuff sprinkled in. Why is this. Because MUSIC SUCKS today, (with the exception of EDM of course.:)). How many things can really do with a gutair before it just gets old and uninteresting.I remember back in the 90s, Tuesdays where the big day man, new albums every week. I haven't felt a Tuesday in YEARS! hy because its all mostly crap out there and this is why the industry is suffering not piracy.
It still shocks me that EDM(and I mean EDM not poppy crap trance\house remixes) never really took off mainstream. Espically Jungle, I always thought jungle was the one that would hit big with the metal, punk, & hip hop croweds. Also I am still SO SO shocked that UK garage never made it here, I remember in 99-00 i predicting it was gonna be the next big thing. never seemed to happen.
Seems to me there will never be another big artist like nirvana. a group that comes along and changes everything. NOTE: not a big nirvana fan here but there influence and what they did is rather remarkable when thought about.
LOL sorry I rambled.
Punch them twice, once for me. But I won't stop you for sneaking a couple more in there either :D.
I will make an exception for heavy remixes though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvmIzxO0-n4
OH NO I JUST PIRATED AGAIN! :mad:
Well... after 14 years of working at MTV, I can tell you first hand that the bands without money to make a 100k video will very rarely if ever get a single play onair.. That is a fact that the TAM dept. makes a reality. The money a label spends is not just a guess.. it is a calculated risk based on knowledge that their song will get on high rotation. This is how it works at MTV Germany... and most of you dont realize that MTV is like McDonalds in the sense that production value is shared amond the different feeds. MTV CHINA, MTV RUSSIA, MTV BRAZIL, MTV LATIN AMERICA, MTV NORDIC, MTV INDIA, MTV UK, MTV AUSTRALIA, MTV CANADA, MTV JAPAN and so forth... The labels who increase the visual quality of mtv with expensive videos will get played all around the world.. just like that... Those labels also pay for the artists to do interviews on MTV which gives content to the channel. So the exposure they get starts climbing and climbing. Also there is a buddy system... for example.. Madonna makes a new video uncensored with 5 baby pigs eating a jar of peanut butter out of her ass(this can air after 10pm in germany). The record label knows that MTV will get high ratings and more money from sponsors/commercials. So the label says... you can have this video exclusive... only if you play our new artist on high rotation... we know he sucks but the girls and boys like them from this or that.
If mtv wants more money from the ratings.. they will play anything given to them from the label as long as it is in that bling bling high end production.. Even if its 10k maggots are doing a syncronized dance on Michael Jacksons corpse with heavy wobble bass... MTV will play it.
Sorry if musical taste is where you think one band is good or another is bad.. but piracy has forced labels to not take chances with artists who cant earn what the labels were once used to earning pre mp3 mania. Its just how it is.. The last 10 years of MTV have been 100% based on ratings and not good taste of music. If little teens love jack ass or some show about girls using UV lights to find cum stains all over some boys bedsheet.. then MTV will air this before some quality electronic mashup that cant even be sold because of that song or artist never being able to generate enough money to compete with the ratings on Hulk hogans prolapse surgery.
perfect example of the shit I had to do...
A tune for a cartoon show about dog ass WTF!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQcu6tzoLyg
This is some really really old stuff.. and this is right when I quit so its pretty sloppy on purpose..
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/user/ERRORIST911#p/u/5/rPs8_HedEb0"]YouTube - ERRORIST911's Channel[/ame]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgaUOwCmiCQ
First off again MTV NEVER and I MEAN NEVER has really played anything that good. its mostly trendy poppy crap that the masses eat up with a spoon like its filed with corn syrup.Quote:
Originally Posted by djfrogstar
In your response you give your own answer.
forced labels to not take chances with artists who cant earn what the labels were once used to earning pre mp3 mania
The dinosaurs went extinct. TV repair men had to find new jobs, and Hair metal is no longer popular.
The point here being that the BIG labels need to reevaluate there situation and adapt.
Just because you have always played the game the same way and won doesnt mean some new guy with a better strategy cant come along and beat u until u figure out his game and then in turn beat him.
NO ONE is going to pay there inflated prices of 18 bux for a CD. they need to get over that & move on, lay people, and rethink the business strategy. At this point in the game, i cant imagine a labels only option for getting there artist out there is MTV seems awfully 1990's to me.
Besides if its money that gets you on MTV no EDM artist really has much of a chance as the labels tend to be small and indie. Its still a head scratchier as to how DEADMAU5 got on MTV. But, DeadMAU5 also gives awareness to the music and in turn labels will hop on to signing the next Deadmua5. Its just like the 90s when nirvana raped the hair metal scene, the labels tried to sign the next nirvana, hence we got Pearl jam, Alice in chain, mud-honey etc etc.
No need to bash one another. Its not like frogstar's 14 years with MTV did any good and Tom's theoretical music expertise is going to affect anything outside of microwaving another hot pocket. Lol :P
hey tom... so what kind of music do you like?Quote:
First off again MTV NEVER and I MEAN NEVER has really played anything that good. its mostly trendy poppy crap that the masses eat up with a spoon like its filed with corn syrup.
Sad thing is... and this is really sad ... but MTV has most of every video in existance digitized and in a database. Something we had access to.. called ARTBOX ..anyways.. if you put in a key word like Rave or jungle or whatever... 100s of videos would appear of all the artists who sent in their videos. All uncompressed PAL or NTSC full quality
There was only one time when mtv played good music.. That was in the UK and the show was called Chill out zone
some regular songs included
PHEX TWIN - "On" - (On EP)
10TH LEVEL - "Too Many People"
THE BLUE NILE - "Headlights On The Parade" - (Hats)
THE COMMUNARDS - "For A Friend" - (Red)
K.D. LANG - "So In Love" - (Red, Hot & Blue)
808 STATE - "Pacific State" - (Ninety)
DEAD CAN DANCE - "Yulunga (Spirit Dance)" - (Taken From The Film "Baraka" / Into The Labyrinth)
DEEP FOREST - "Deep Forest" - (Deep Forest)
FUTURE SOUND OF LONDON - "Cascade" - (Lifeforms)
ORBITAL - "Lush 3-1" - (Orbital 2 (Brown Album))
NEW ORDER - "The Perfect Kiss" - (Low-Life)
ELECTROTETE - "I Love You" - (In Order To Dance 4)
ELECTRIC BOY - "Keep On Walking"
MILES DAVIS - "The Doo-Bop Song" - (Doo-Bop)
A MAN CALLED ADAM - "Barefoot In The Head" - (The Apple)
ONE DOVE - "White Love" - (Morning Dove White)
VIC REEVES - "Abide With Me"
BRIAN ENO - "Fractal Zoom" - (From The Longform Video "Future Shock" / Nerve Net)
MOBY - "Move" - (Move EP)
TALK TALK - "I Believe In You" - (Spirit Of Eden / The Very Best Of Talk Talk)
VERVE - "She's A Superstar" - (Verve EP)
BARNES & BARNES - "Fish Heads" - (Yeah: The Essential Barnes & Barnes)
THE NOTWIST - "Johnny & Mary" - (Johnny & Mary EP)
WARP RECORDS - "Sim Biotics" (AUTECHRE - "Basscadet") - (From The Longform Video "Motion")
FUTURE SOUND OF LONDON - "Cascade" - (Lifeforms)
IAM - "Je Danse Le Mia" - (Ombre Est Lumière Volumes 1&2)
SOON E MC - "Au Nom Des Miens" - (Point De Vue.)
THE MAGI & EMANATION - "Everybody Say Love" - (Mindblowing 7)
MICHAEL BROOK FEAT. BRIAN ENO & ROGER ENO - "Breakdown" - (Cobalt Blue)
DEAD CAN DANCE - "The Carnival Is Over" - (Into The Labyrinth)
THE HIGHER INTELLIGENCE AGENCY - "Speedlearn" - (Future Shock (VHS) / Ambient Dub Vol. II - Earthjuice)
GARY CLAIL & ON-U SOUND SYSTEM - "The Emotional Hooligan" - (Emotional Hooligan)
JAH WOBBLE'S INVADERS OF THE HEART - "Becoming More Like God" - (Take Me To God)
THE HIGHER INTELLIGENCE AGENCY - "Speedlearn" - (Future Shock (VHS) / Ambient Dub Vol. II - Earthjuice)
ATLANTIC OCEAN - "Waterfall" - (Waterfall)\
here is a link to the rest..
http://www.mtv-chilloutzone.com/playlistarchive.htm
Tru, I really wasnt trying to bash.... Sorry if I came off that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by deviantdigi
Yeah we never got Chill out zone, only MTV AMP. which was cool back in the day before I knew any better. but this was b4 DSL High speed so the net was still pretty small and this was one of the few avenues you could see EDM outside of a rave or club.Quote:
Originally Posted by djfrogstar
also problem in america during the 90s was lasting hatred of disco which suppressed electronic music..Quote:
Originally Posted by Djtom420
The rest of europe was sharing the whole wave of electronic videos only as a fad in MTVs eyes... not enough naked girls to give it prometime.. but it was there... and then it went when the programmer from Viva 2 left to become head of mtv germany.. and he hated electronic music.. I got him so mad at a company party he spilled his drink all overhimself.. just because I screamed for a breakbeat show.
everyweek mtv would literally throw out 100s of promo cds.. why. because there was no video. We used to just take the jewel cases and microwave the cds to make patterns. that or ebay till they banned us from doing that
the only exception to a video not costing 100s of 1000s of dollars or someone popular was SEX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_fCqg92qks
Tru most americans suck when it somes to EDM, they think it all sounds the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by djfrogstar
LOL i just saw this for the first time in that Documentary, Pump up the volume, the history of house. awsome doc if u havent seen it.
the funny thing is as bad as disco may have been lets face it the onslaught of American idol winners is enough to make u want to stab ur ear drums out with your headphone jack.
I wish someone would do this for american idol winners and Crap Pop country that every american ALL of the sudden started listening to in 2005.
Careful, not every American, I can't stand either American Idol or Pop Country and I feel the state of music in America is abysmal. Just don't over generalize, please.
x 1 millionQuote:
Originally Posted by SirReal
my point was based on the reality of wolfman jack bearded deep voice stereotype disc jockeys hating disco and not retiring from their jobs in the pre internet radio station days. They had control over minimalizing what they thought was just modern disco. And this happened in america.. as the evidence shows with disco records being burned publicly.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirReal
trying to go back on topic.. your all going to die very soon anyways.. 2012 is right around the corner.. if you own the vinyl.. then DL it ... you will save yourself alot of time.. and time is money.. and if it comes down to it... show the vinyl as proof... but if you have 100k songs and a 2TB drive.. then you are fucked...
CBP can scan your hard drive if they want, there will be a point where they will be obligated to report supspicious amounts of data.. but its not at this point yet...
Thats why I used to travel with all my mp3s in a true crypt volume which no CBP will beable to forcebreak the encryption.. They can however make an image of the drive and send it to CIA. But this is only if your coming from a country on the list.. and look a stereotypical bad guy.
CBP is not looking for mp3s.. but they can by law take your drive... so better not have your shit out in the open
http://www.dhs.gov/journal/leadershi...er-laptop.html
if you bought it how come you steal it?????
@frogstar,
My post was in response to DjTom420, not yours. But I do disagree with this "also problem in america during the 90s was lasting hatred of disco which suppressed electronic music..
The rest of europe was sharing the whole wave of electronic videos". While Europe embraced the electronic music scene, America kept it underground with the likes of Detroit Techno & Chicago House but even before that, Industrial, none of which garnered any popular acclaim, which allowed each scene to grow and experiment. I've always felt the best music of any scene is refined and made when in it's "underground" phase. By the time it's become mainstream, the creativity & expressiveness is mostly exhausted. I'm not ruling out the UKs role in underground as the US & UK have ALWAYS borrowed and been influenced by each other. It's a very parasitic/symbiotic relationship and apparently it's the US' turn to step up but the state of popular music in the US is quite frankly, embarrassing right now. Hopefully that means there's a few "scenes" in their "underground" phase right now, but I'm not holding my breath.
As much as I love the underground and the scene we got away with in the 90s.. The main reason why early rave/techno/ambient was not being embraced was because there was no real face on the music. This atleast with MTV has been the primary reason. If we lived in a SCI FI world like battlestar galactica.. The cylons would buy the music for the warmth of syncopation. And little Cylons would faint to the instrumental bleeps and synths.
No voice/singer= not marketable back in the early 90s with a few exceptions.
Alot of the pioneers of techno/electronic/rave/whatever were skinny introverted drugged up kids like this dudmouse guy. Obviously not all.. The peak of selling music before MP3s started affecting sales probally had all the shelfspace taken in most shops. For years I remember seeing the same compilations in non underground record shops. Techno for an answer-only for the headstrong-aural ecstacy-lords of acid and shit like that.
and again back on topic... what do you do with 20m of records... digitize all that? hell no
[QUOTE=and again back on topic... what do you do with 20m of records... digitize all that? hell no[/QUOTE]
I did. But I guess it's just up to the moral integrity of the individual. I personally think there's a direct link to "free/stolen DLed music" and the shitty state of the music industry today but that's just my opinion.
Haven't looked on the forum for a day and there now is 8 pages!!
Good discussion people.
I do agree that is not right and as a music lover I want to give money to the artists I love because without that money they would stop...
Therefore I have decided that the "right" thing to do is probably to wait till they have a sale on beatport and then everyone is a winner.
I already have a few tunes on both formats (legally) so may as well carry on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms
Listen bro, its not ok to steal anything in this world, no matter what reason you want to sit and justify your reasons for stealing the track...
As an artist and a label owner, you are taking money out of my mouth and the mouths of my artists, you are also contributing to others doing it as well.
Thank you!!I am glad to see there are some people with some good ethics! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EdanUK
Stealing music is wrong. I still buy tracks that i have on vinyl, i would rather pay $2 than have a constant hissing/popping sound in my tracks.
With that said, i hate beatport. They treat artist like shit. I try to use juno as much as possible.
Also, if you're looking for free music. Look up some artist on soundcloud, most will have at least a few tracks for free. It may not be the one you want, but it's free.
same it's all about Juno...but beatport do have some good sales and alot of exclusives, I guess that's cause it's bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8upDrew
Ok then... what about all the electronic music artists who steal software and make music with stolen software. Should they get paid for making music illegally?
1990s-2010 how many people installed a cracked plugin to make music with?
This is where the "artists should get paid" stance hits a grey area... of course people are legit on all levels ... or on some levels.. or on no levels...
lets say dudmouse makes his music on an illegal installation of windows and using illegal pluggins... the momemnt dudmouse makes a penny... then he should be fined and thrown into jail for STEALING. Regardless of people paying cash for VINYL or DIGITAL ,,, Why support illegal activity?