Planning=cheating?

other than being the dead thread resurrector...I wanted to chime in on this too

Like I've said before, Im still getting used to the transition from vinyl to digital decks. Im slowly starting to realize...and enjoy the CONTROL I have.

So that being said...some of my best sets have been improvised completely freestyle. Most of my planned recorded mixes have a good overall "journey" feel to them but there has been some VERY dry, monotonous boring parts that also give it a very mechanical feel (sort of....one track to the next vibe). This may be because consciously, I am VERY aware it is being recorded and how shitty it will sound when and if I screw up.....but that is an other topic.

Maybe this was because of my lack of drive, technical talent, focus or patience back in the vinyl days but Im LOVING what I can now do with much more ease and precision now.

For example the simplicity, versatility and tremendous usefulness of the loop function for plain mixing purposes. Like MAKING a mix work when the math doesn’t work (i.e. using loops to prolong a mixin or mixout part until you TELL it you WANT the groove to DROP....I LOVE that shit, FUCK YEA!!! :D )

So anyway in that respect tell me planning isnt an attractive option (maybe memory is considered "planning" too)

Im actually working on a mix right now that I most definitely "planned"...I mean like the way JeSc said (detailed notes and all). For recorded mixes that you are using as a promo tool or what not I think should be planned. Tell me you dont think the big name DJs all just throw a couple completely freestyle sets together and just burn, duplicate and release them on the major record labels? Hell I think even Sasha & Digweed "planned" many of their most renowned mix CDs...that shit is like FLUID.

Final verdict for me...planning for promo or sort of "official" mixes is totally cool and live mixes should consist of a little of both...reading the crowd...and always rocking the fucking house.

I think most DJ's do this when they start playing out or if they are doing something really NEW.
It helps calm the nerves of fucking up....with a lil backup homework.
Once you are comfortable....you will stop using it...as its VERY time consuming!

I have always only A-Bed....with maybe a sampler or FX.
Now that I am Digital....i want to use 4 decks.

I will most DEFINATELY need to plan a set or work one out to see what sits well with each other.

Also, my music is still very new to me....so this will also take a while getting used to.
Once I am comfortable....I will leave my hand notes at home.
:)

That Loop set at the end of a track is a winner....I must admit...I use it a lot.

When I first started playing out(On Vinyl) I would ack my bag basically in order of how i was going to play them. This was mainly because I was so nervous I was scared I would mess up.

As I got more comfortable with the whole thing I would have a number of "starter tracks" that I knew went together to form the basis of the beginning of my set. From there I would play what i felt would go best.

To me theres no hard and fast rule - Just don't over prepare and get stuck on playing the same tracks the same way. Experiment with mix in/out points so that no two mixes sound the same.

hey all

Yeah, as a DJ of 11 years now i'd echo most of what everyone has said.

Planning a full set down to the last detail can sometimes be good, but is only really useful if you are a big name DJ touring clubs around the country. You can play the same set in 10 different venues to 10 different crowds with just very minor on the fly adjustments and no one will be the wiser. However if you are a more normal style DJ who has a residency in a club and is playing to a similar crowd every week then this type of planning can begin to sound a little monotonous and "samey" unless your completely re-writing it every week.

Also, no matter what you do, NEVER be too attached to any plan because you never know how a live crowd is going to react week to week. There'll be the odd week where some songs which are normally floor fillers just don't catch them the same as normal and some weeks where unusual tunes will catch you off guard and send them nuts, and you have to be flexible and able to react to these changes.

I know my music pretty well now so the way I normally work is to just to spend half an hour jotting down on a bit of paper some ideas before i leave, and these will be in a couple of categories:

- Firstly the huge, currently popular tunes that are saved right for the peaks of your set, these usually get played around the middle of my sets when everyone is on the floor, but get spread throughout the whole night as wee surprises here and there as well.

- Newer stuff that's just out yet and may be a bit too new for people to know. I'll normally stick this on leading into the really big stuff and see what reaction it gets, and as people get to know it over a few weeks then it may move up into the big stuff or drop away depending on how i feel people are reacting to it.

- Classics and old faithfuls that always work well, fallback tunes. These again are mixed through the night but also used at the start of the set for the first while, when people are arriving and you want to create a good atmosphere with some good tunes but your not wanting to use up your huge floor fillers all in one go.

- Some unusual tunes and wee surprises. To make sure each week is different I'll make sure i get a handful of songs that i maybe haven't played in a while or whatever that can be thrown in here and there just to keep things new and mix it up a bit.

So i'll have these ideas and just see how it goes, work through them and play what feels right for the crowd that week, also throwing in a few requests and some other random stuff that comes to mind as I'm going. Some weeks i'll play most of what i've jotted down and some weeks i'll veer right off it and go in a totally different direction just because that what the crowd seems to react to that week.


This is different from making a demo CD or whatever though. These are usually very well planned and worked out before hand.

And while they may do it for a specific "live" CD that records a particular gig, don't kid yourself to think that the big name DJ's just record themselves DJing for their produced CD's. NEVER! They will spend several weeks selecting tracks and working out what order to put them in, usually with some songs forced on them by their record company that they want pushed, and remember they have to negotiate rights for it all because it will be an official release so they may not get all the tracks they want first time and its a fairly lengthy process.

Then its all beat matched and arranged in a multi-track recording program like Pro-tools or Cubase or whatever, and moved about and lined up and messed with, and the order is probably changed again a couple of times when they start hearing how things sound together, suggestions come in from assistants and friends, a couple of dry runs will be made that will be listened to and adjusted, and again after several days of work they will be happy with it and it'll get released.

k

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Originally Posted by kevinmcdonough

This is different from making a demo CD or whatever though. These are usually very well planned and worked out before hand.

And while they may do it for a specific "live" CD that records a particular gig, don't kid yourself to think that the big name DJ's just record themselves DJing for their produced CD's. NEVER! They will spend several weeks selecting tracks and working out what order to put them in, usually with some songs forced on them by their record company that they want pushed, and remember they have to negotiate rights for it all because it will be an official release so they may not get all the tracks they want first time and its a fairly lengthy process.

Then its all beat matched and arranged in a multi-track recording program like Pro-tools or Cubase or whatever, and moved about and lined up and messed with, and the order is probably changed again a couple of times when they start hearing how things sound together, suggestions come in from assistants and friends, a couple of dry runs will be made that will be listened to and adjusted, and again after several days of work they will be happy with it and it'll get released.

k

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Shit man...sounds like you speak from experience?! What a buzz kill (not you, the process) You run a label?

Interesting to hear how it's done for DJs vs 5 piece bands and what not. Of course Im sure they are all not like that (the track recording process anyway...and even for bands...like the way DM just did their album for example).

Then again...I cant remember the last time I bought a mix CD...from the vinyl days at least. I've got plenty of "official" label mixes where you can hear the manual beat-matching (more specifically the DJ pinching the spindle to increase the speed of the record.....minor imperfections that sound beautiful)

Interesting to hear how some of them are done though!!

On a side note, I guess it depends what style of music you play, but... I don't take requests. there's a shirt I very much like that says: "I AM THE DJ, I AM NOT THE JUKEBOX"

I do however get the good ol' "can you play something we can dance to.." as I am spinning house and the floor is full. gotta love them girls.

it's the difference between making cinema and making reality tv.

both can be entertaining sure, but the dj sets with the most value imo are ones that are product of extensive planning and patience. I can't name one bigname DJ that I respect who "just wings it" for their mixtape releases or live events.

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Originally Posted by FTW

On a side note, I guess it depends what style of music you play, but... I don't take requests. there's a shirt I very much like that says: "I AM THE DJ, I AM NOT THE JUKEBOX"

I do however get the good ol' "can you play something we can dance to.." as I am spinning house and the floor is full. gotta love them girls.

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lol yea...I believe somebody painted this picture PERFECTLY before...something about that chic constantly coming up to the DJ asking him/her to play something she can "dance to" (aka her favorite song to get drunk and strip to...) yea :rolleyes:

One of my favorites right here:

http://www.fractalspin.com/x/product...&cat=16&page=1

i always plan/prepare for recorded mixes. for parties if i'm playing for 2 or 3 hours i will have a 'dirty dozen' of tracks that i wanna play and just go with it after that. i use harmonics so that also helps with moving a jam along.

i was just wondering if its considered "cheating" if ive been practicing and find songs that work great together one after another and write them down on a set list that i would later use live. i think its great because i can almost pre-plan where i want to bring the crowd musically but on the other hand i kinda lose that connection with the crowd in way by not knowing how theyre going to react on what i play.

what do u guys think?

nope

A huge part of your job as the dj is being able to read that crowd and to be able to react to what you feel they want within a song or two. Of course there is nothing wrong with a set playlist man, i use them all the time. All our pre recorded mixes take a day or so to prep before we lay them down. What i would suggest to you is: Say for example you have a two hour set planned, by all means have a set list ready but i would have say another ten tracks ready to go that you can swap around with some of the others in the set just to maybe change things up if needed.

I work by having sonic combos, usually around 3-5 tunes that work in a row, these can then be chained together to form entire sets and allow fluid reaction to the crowd while still playing tunes that I know work really well together.

Sometimes I just wing it completely tho, & sometimes I work via a planned set, this method allows for both.

"sonic combos" nice terminology man :p

haha nice wording xD Yeah i do the Sonic Combos as well haha :p

streetfighter 2 meets the arcade mod vci-100

sonic boo..... sonic combos! i like it as well :D

Sonic combo FTW!

great idea midian has tho. A group of 5 or 6 tracks that work great together and then link a few of these groups together and boom! sonic ecstasy

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Originally Posted by amon2385

is this considered "cheating" as a dj??

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i thought it was fairly standard practice?

Anyone care to give examples of sonic combos to see exactly what you think a sonic combo is. Obviousley i understand that some of these will be peoples secrets but it would be good for people learning to see exactly what you mean by a sonic combo.

Yeah pretty sure i do the sonic combo thing too. I have about six playlists with sets of 5-8 songs that work really well together. I use alot of the techniques ean golden has shown on this site with these playlists. Having these playlists makes it alot easier to impress when needed :D

Then i have one playlist with a ton of songs i just really like or i know others will like. I can just pick songs from here when needed and chuck them in. Not mixed as well as the playlists but its still acceptable.

It's worked out pretty well the few times i have played with other people around.

Teachers always told us this line whenever we would write essays, but it could also be applied to DJing

"By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail"

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Originally Posted by Grifff

"By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail"

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cool story bro.

so true though... ours was a mixture on that :( .... "failure to study, is studying to be a failure"... sept I prooved a lot of teachers wrong... I never studied spent all my time in the skatepark... got shit gcse's and now im doing alright for myself... so I cant wait till I go back to england and see all my teachers and be like FUCK YOUUUU !!! I have a company and do alright and never needed your shitty little classes... I took music tech in school... did pretty good at all the practicals and ended up getting like an E over all because the exam was based on african tribal music which we never got to cover in class :|

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Originally Posted by Grifff

Teachers always told us this line whenever we would write essays, but it could also be applied to DJing

"By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail"

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if that was a question, i wouldnt mind the bump.

how did you even find this thread????

http://www.911sono.com/images/cpr_graphic_1.jpg

If you're recording then preparing is definitely a good idea, that way you can get the best mixes, but if you're just having fun, then just mess about and see what works. If it fails, then you know not to do it again.

this might be a new record for thread revivals

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Originally Posted by Garygary1

this might be a new record for thread revivals

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nowhere near. we've had 3+ year old threads necrobumped before, and this forum's only been open for just over 3 years.

Also, how about we get a picture thread going?

edited pictures out*

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Originally Posted by Audeo

Also, how about we get a picture thread going?

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How about not. This is a valid question no matter how old it is and posting a bunch of senseless OT pictures will do nothing to further the conversation.

The best performances I think are when the songs are so juggled and manipulated it becomes a new piece of music, and that means it has to be sort of "written"/planned out. Improvising that is like DJ jazz, even more badass. That dude who said you were wrong obvi doesn't feel the posi vibes.

This thread is officially the Zombie thread.

i love it when people necrobump ANY thread.... it means they have used the forum SEARCH!!

I enjoy the preparation as much as the playing out. For me its my personal time with the music I love. In some cases ill take things a step further and edit out the less interesting parts of the track so i'm left with just the intro, the banging bit and outro.

I always make a playlist its like having dj sat nav. You need an idea of where your going and how to get there.

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Originally Posted by midian

I work by having sonic combos, usually around 3-5 tunes that work in a row, these can then be chained together to form entire sets and allow fluid reaction to the crowd while still playing tunes that I know work really well together.

Sometimes I just wing it completely tho, & sometimes I work via a planned set, this method allows for both.

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Nice!

Pretty much me too.

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Originally Posted by josh@firestorm

i love it when people necrobump ANY thread.... it means they have used the forum SEARCH!!

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same, but this wasnt bumped by a question, but rather a normal post.

Thread revival.

Ive had half a dozen scraps of paper with track lists in a few groups living in my record box....now my laptop bag for about 10yrs.
Just for that moment of.....ooh which direction am I heading...whats next...mental blank.....
I can throw an eye on these lists to jig my memory mid set...my brain now has other things to focus on other than just music as I get older and more committed.
In my opinion every DJ prepares for every set with or without realising.