Xone: DB2 Thread

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Originally Posted by Eizhauz

Gotcha.

I am possibly going to piece-by-piece my setup in a similar fashion. Laptop like first, and audio-interface controller (4 deck compatable) with soundcard likely (X1 does not have one I take it?). Then work on the mixer upgrade as I have the archaic DJM-500 (Xone 92 or DB2 are in my sights/price range). The DB4 is massive! I am jealous!

I know you are mentioning the Xone and NI products for controllers, but Reloop has a sturdy looking unit with soundcard for 4 deck audio I/O available as well. Ships with Traktor Pro LE which isn't a concern for you but for someone like myself that would still need the software it would (upgraded naturally to full version). I know Reloop sits below A&H and NI in terms of quality typically, but how bad can a singular controller be? Advice?

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Yes, piece-by-piece is the movement :). I've had experiences with Reloop, and I don't like the brand nor their products. So I wouldn't recommend Reloop products! And the fact that the Kontrol X1 comes with a free version of TP2 is a deal breaker (at least, it was for me - got it with the bag for € 199,-). Or you could maybe wait for the new Traktor Controller which has been teased today.

But it's up to you. I can believe that one would like the Reloop Contour!

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Originally Posted by Eizhauz

Honest question:

Would it be fair to say the DB2 and its effects bank(s) could be a replacement for the TP2 effects.... or just a compliment to them?

I could see a scenario where with a 4-deck single unit midi controller paired with the likes of the DB2 could effectively eliminate the 'need' for NI's effects, thereby only needing software that can quality looping, sampling, cue points, beat-gridding, 4-decks, etc.

Am I not thinking this through correctly?
Advice?

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Well, spot on! For me, the TP2 FX are a compliment to the DB2/4 FX. I've played with the DB4 (and reserved it afterwards, hehe) and damn, the Delay is just amazing. Incredibly versatile and they sound so damn professional! The FX from the DB2/4 are coming from the iLive-series, they're like the best mixers out there (not for DJ'ing, but for festivals, churches, etc.) and have studio-like FX. So the DB2/4 come with studio FX and compared to the FX from Traktor and other mixers out there, they're beating them with ease in terms of quality.

Though I don't like the Reverb of the DB2/4. I'm going to use the Reverb of TP2 and maybe in the future, buy external hardware (like the EvenTide Space). So in my case, the FX from Traktor are complementing the FX from the DB2/4!

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Originally Posted by JDFS

Though I don't like the Reverb of the DB2/4. I'm going to use the Reverb of TP2 and maybe in the future, buy external hardware (like the EvenTide Space). So in my case, the FX from Traktor are complementing the FX from the DB2/4!

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Can I ask what about the Reverb is a concern compared to the TP2 reverb?
DB2 have post fader efx now, which was a massive plus for me with TP2.

According to Mix Architekt the Reverbs have been greatly improved... on the DB2... sure there will be a software update for DB4, no?

Well, first I need to hear them. I don't think that the tail is long enough and they're aren't (in the recent firmware) post fader. When you push the FX On to put the effect out, there's no tail, that annoys me! But the great thing about the DB2/4 is that the FX is integrated in the software, so they can be improved with new firmware :D.

I would choose the DB4 versions of delay and reverb every time except one - the echo freeze feature of Traktor's delay is a bit easier to use with a single button control. I suspect (or at least hope) that the K2 will bring this feature to the DB4 eventually - hit one button and get the effect to play with the parameters you preset without moving the knobs and stuff.

Other effects like beatmasher, bounce, LFO and gater do not really exist in the DB4. There are similar things to the latter two that you can use but they are not nearly as simple and straightforward (and, again, 1-button-programmable) as they are in Traktor. I hope future versions of the firmware implement these effects as I think they would sound a lot better than they do in Traktor.

upon finishing the first few versions of my k2 maps, i don't need to use the db4 map at all. i have both loaded into traktor, but the db4 map is only there as a worst case scenario redundant control option. using the k2's is very natural from a tactile and feedback perspective, and i've adapted my control scheme from the 4D or 1D/2D config i was running previously. with xlink, it's a single usb connection to my computer and ethernet cables do the rest.

the main benefits for me is that all of the controls are top level, so db4 control and traktor controls via k2 x2 are always at my finger tips. the led feedback offers immediate indications of the move mode, loop, play states... and there's some interesting bi-directional stuff i have going on with deck focus. i can focus the decks with the cue monitor buttons on the db4 and have the k2's respond (the amber focus highlight moves across both controllers); or leave the cut monitor as it is and focus the decks only on the k2's. but more to the point, i've uploaded a rough pdf that shows the current map. you can check it out here:

http://www.mixarchitekt.com/teknik/MA-K2.pdf

the main thing for me is the simplicity and immediacy of everything. i don't have to devote too much mind power to remembering where i'm at on the layer shifts, and i can hammer some dubs while knocking another track around... i'm able to focus on the composition of the mix freely rather than deal with control states. but i do have many years of muscle memory from 3D, 4D, and 1D+2D use that is instantly recalled with the K2 map i made.

other k2 considerations is that you can jump multiple computers onto an xlink network. each usb connection can be a link for each cpu, and then they can pass midi information over xlink to the other machine's applications and vice versa. collaborative solutions are only limited by your vision at that point. that said, it's nothing entirely new - multiple midi cables or ethernet links between computers can do similar things, but a few k2's and a few laptops can speak together very, very easily, and it's not that much hardware to drag around.

i'm not sure if many of you have seen the fx variant document that's on the xone website (xone - db4 - documents - db4 fx notes), but it gives a run down of all the fx and parameter controls. there's lots to learn from it and i'm always discovering new things about the mixer and it's applications. if some of you are not finding the tails of reverbs to be long enough, hall massif would be a good starting point with it's time set to the max.

the firmware update that is coming will still be pre-fader, but the fx routing options allow for many functional uses. bypass can be placed before or after the effect, with the results being tails ring out (pre-fx bypass) or the get cut (post-fx bypass). the new send mode routings (not sure of what the final names will be on release) allow dry/wet to function like and aux send, which is just amazing. that combined with the pre-fx bypass is a wonderful solution for the moment. post fader routing will be following soon, among other surprises...

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Originally Posted by mix architekt

other k2 considerations is that you can jump multiple computers onto an xlink network. each usb connection can be a link for each cpu, and then they can pass midi information over xlink to the other machine's applications and vice versa. collaborative solutions are only limited by your vision at that point. that said, it's nothing entirely new - multiple midi cables or ethernet links between computers can do similar things, but a few k2's and a few laptops can speak together very, very easily, and it's not that much hardware to drag around.

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Wow! Very interesting, and yes this has been around for a while but it has never been easy to use and is often unreliable, so this is fantastic news.

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i'm not sure if many of you have seen the fx variant document that's on the xone website (xone - db4 - documents - db4 fx notes), but it gives a run down of all the fx and parameter controls.

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Thank you for that link; I'm printing it out now. This will be really helpful as I had a lot of questions about specific effects and parameters that aren't obvious just from adjusting them at random.

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the new send mode routings (not sure of what the final names will be on release) allow dry/wet to function like and aux send, which is just amazing. that combined with the pre-fx bypass is a wonderful solution for the moment. post fader routing will be following soon, among other surprises...

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Wow again! Also very interesting (the send), as sometimes that gives you a lot more control over the sound of the effect than dry/wet. As for "other surprises" - this is something I love about the DB4; it promises to continue to evolve.

I'm curious whether effects like the Traktor ones I mentioned above are on the agenda. I suppose if you could tell us you already would have; thanks for the extensive information in either case!

Actually, one more curiosity I had was whether the K2 would allow control over the DB4's effects in the way I mentioned above - e.g. program one button on the K2 to launch a specific effect on the DB4 with prescribed parameters. When I first heard the K2 would talk to the DB4 that's what I envisioned although I'm not sure how easy that would be to implement.

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Originally Posted by mix architekt

i've uploaded a rough pdf that shows the current map. you can check it out here:

http://www.mixarchitekt.com/teknik/MA-K2.pdf

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Seems this is a mapping for traktor pro 1 not 2, will there be one available for traktor pro 2 with sample decks?

Cheers yet agains Mix Architekt.

Linkfor documentation of DB2 efx section he spoke of.

Hall Massif
Hall Echo

Both of these claim to have a tail of .1 - 10 seconds, FYI.


Thanks for the mapping PDF. Massive! I love the simplicity of it.

Question for mix architekt

I notice on the DB2 the crossfader assign switches are also the FX assign switches.

Is there going to be an option in db2 firmware to disable the crossfader so that the switches can just assign FX units without having to worry about turning the crossfader on and messing up your mix if you don't use the crossfader? I would hate to be mixing then want to turn on an FX unit then have to worry about the crossfader being centered as to not screw everything up.

If there isn't yet there should be. :)