The naive club promoter

but unfortunately, this hate started with djs and now its trickling down to the promoters. For djs (spin only vinyl and/or cds) who dont believe in DVSs, its because IHMO they arent computer savvy enough to learn a DVS, but also feel its cheating using laptop, since most software has a sync option. I dont really want to rant, but the way I see if the crowd is happy with your performance thats all that matters. Because they dont care if you played using a blender, a kazoo and a reverb machine, is that you rocked it.

That's what it boils down to soul, but then you have those people that think one is BETTER than the other, which it has no real validity to it. In reality, the music is still being played.

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Originally Posted by tito

that is the problem with the guys with this obsession about their gear. You did not need to tell him that and maybe that will cost you a gig. Just show up at the venue and plug the controller really nobody cares but if you tell the that you are not using, what in his eyes is, professional equipment you just shoot you in your feet. In the other hand does not hurt you use cdj´s or turntables, will make you a more complete dj.

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I think this is exactly the wrong angle to take. If you show up with what he considers unprofessional equipment, you might get fired on the spot. This is not one of the times when it's better to ask forgiveness than permission, because promoters will not forgive you for making their lives harder during sound check…they have other things to worry about.

The way you win an argument like this is to change it to one that you can win…and then decimate your opponent in a way that respects his original opinion after making it irrelevant to the new discussion.

How you go about that is an important life skill that you kind of need to learn. It's also something that most people suck at or have a problem with…often both.

And–obviously–the argument is a lot easier to win if you're using top-end controllers and an Apple than it is if you're using a budget PC and a mixtrack pro…but, I digress.

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Originally Posted by Coldfuzion

I think people are misinterpreting the thread as the comments pile on.

All he was asking is what you would say in response to what the club promoter told him, he is NOT starting a discussion or comparing different hardware mediums that you can DJ with.

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I would focus on the fact that slightly different equipment in venues leads to an inconsistent performance environment: different levels of Pioneer CDJs have different feature sets that change the way the DJ can perform. Yes, it's possible to play on all of them, but it's not always possible to give your best performance and manipulate the crowd the way you're used to: not having access to a much-needed feature like hot cues or beat-loops (which Pioneer makes you choose between) means that your normal techniques to rotate groups between the dance floor and the bar may not be as effective on one system as another. By using a controller and having a well-managed backup system in place, you ensure that you'll be able to appropriately manage the crowd and maximize profits for both the venue and the promoter while providing an emergency plan in case some integral part of the venue's DJ booth fails. While you understand the visceral appeal of traditional techniques and the completely rational fear of relying on cutting-edge technology, the benefits of encouraging diverse performance media vastly outweigh the downsides of new methods of performance.

After a speech like that, you have to deliver. Failure is not an option…but it's a very effective way to call someone an idiot without them noticing. It addresses all of the concerns I see in his statement, it focuses on his needs, brings up a potential disaster that he probably hasn't considered–that only affects his method, it keeps the argument "about equipment"–which he seems to like discussing, and it leaves you the option to back down and say "you're the client…CDs are fine…I'll just bring it as a backup," if you chicken out or can't pull it off.

Obviously…the effectiveness of this technique is inversely proportional to both the intelligence and manipulativeness of the promoter.

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Originally Posted by mostapha

I would focus on the fact that slightly different equipment in venues leads to an inconsistent performance environment: different levels of Pioneer CDJs have different feature sets that change the way the DJ can perform. Yes, it's possible to play on all of them, but it's not always possible to give your best performance and manipulate the crowd the way you're used to: not having access to a much-needed feature like hot cues or beat-loops (which Pioneer makes you choose between) means that your normal techniques to rotate groups between the dance floor and the bar may not be as effective on one system as another. By using a controller and having a well-managed backup system in place, you ensure that you'll be able to appropriately manage the crowd and maximize profits for both the venue and the promoter while providing an emergency plan in case some integral part of the venue's DJ booth fails. While you understand the visceral appeal of traditional techniques and the completely rational fear of relying on cutting-edge technology, the benefits of encouraging diverse performance media vastly outweigh the downsides of new methods of performance.

After a speech like that, you have to deliver. Failure is not an option…but it's a very effective way to call someone an idiot without them noticing. It addresses all of the concerns I see in his statement, it focuses on his needs, brings up a potential disaster that he probably hasn't considered–that only affects his method, it keeps the argument "about equipment"–which he seems to like discussing, and it leaves you the option to back down and say "you're the client…CDs are fine…I'll just bring it as a backup," if you chicken out or can't pull it off.

Obviously…the effectiveness of this technique is inversely proportional to both the intelligence and manipulativeness of the promoter.

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THIS^^^^^^THIS

Probably not being a smart ass about it is best. You could lose the gig and if its a small town the promoters or club owners may be friends and your name gets the Blacklist and you cant get anything.

/rant
ITs funny to me because 10 years ago if you used CDjs it was the same negative reaction, now its cool to use cds, but damn you if you use abelton or whatever. However 10 years ago the big name djs in europe where all using cds and vinyl, PauL van Dyke, Sasha and digweed, roger sanchez etc, etc. And what was Sashsa last seen using? Abelton, so to me that just screrams cutting edge.
/end rant

It seems that using controllers is more accepted in europe than in the U.S. from what i have seen.
I dont see what the fuss is all about though.
If you can rock the party it shouldnot be a problem

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Originally Posted by deejaysoul

but unfortunately, this hate started with djs and now its trickling down to the promoters. For djs (spin only vinyl and/or cds) who dont believe in DVSs, its because IHMO they arent computer savvy enough to learn a DVS, but also feel its cheating using laptop, since most software has a sync option. I dont really want to rant, but the way I see if the crowd is happy with your performance thats all that matters. Because they dont care if you played using a blender, a kazoo and a reverb machine, is that you rocked it.

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if I had gone dvs, I'd still be manual matching tbh

The most important thing is to get your foot in the door! If they want you to play on cds do it. I would see if they allow DVS on CDJ-s or 1200's and use that.

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Originally Posted by djchriswoods.co.uk

theres a guy that owns a club in my town, he won't let DJ's use DVS or laptops at all because 'it looks like your checking ur email all night'...

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Im from a vinyl background so i can say this with authority.

There is nothing more boring than watching the back of some guys head whilst he thumbs through his crates like a dirty old man looking through a box of porn mags.

Dont get me wrong, crate digging is a joy but its like having a wank.
We all enjoy it but you dont wanna watch somebody else doing it.

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Originally Posted by JesC

The most important thing is to get your foot in the door! If they want you to play on cds do it. I would see if they allow DVS on CDJ-s or 1200's and use that.

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Sorry for going off-topic: JesC, what if you've never played on 1200s or anything of the sort? My first setup was (is) my S4. I'm sure I can handle my own fairly easily on the CDJs, but the 1200s would scare the shit outta me.

I'm asking what would you do in that situation? Just wing it?

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Originally Posted by Coldfuzion

Sorry for going off-topic: JesC, what if you've never played on 1200s or anything of the sort? My first setup was (is) my S4. I'm sure I can handle my own fairly easily on the CDJs, but the 1200s would scare the shit outta me.

I'm asking what would you do in that situation? Just wing it?

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that why its important to be part of a dj community, no only online, but in real life. Back in the day when vinyl was king, I had a circle of dj friends and we had no problem letting new djs coming over and use 1200's if they didnt have a pair. So they could learn.

Look at what CharlesFeelGood is doing for next saturday Feb 5th, he is offering a place for us to meet up and have that dj community again. That was lost with this whole digital thing. It went from record stores to blogs.