Actually most people will see the advantage of the four banks and map them to other functions if they don't want to control other decks...
Jog fx etc...
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Actually most people will see the advantage of the four banks and map them to other functions if they don't want to control other decks...
Jog fx etc...
But what you're talking about would require the user to hit the button extra times, every single time they want to switch the deck, even when playing live.Quote:
Originally Posted by nem0nic
On the other hand, all you'd have to do to implement page toggling is explain that it's possible to switch the pages off in the manual or patch notes. They only have to do it one time ever, it doesn't need to be suggested in the interface at all.
Plus we're only talking about adding an option. if they don't want to, they don't have to, obviously. It's never a bad idea to add an option like this. Especially when it will fix such a huge problem.
Huh? What keeps a user from using decks C and D? Are you suggesting that a major use case is the user that wants to address 3 virtual decks with one PL-1, but also would have trouble hitting the deck button twice to jump from 3 back to 1?Quote:
How many of you don't want to use decks C and D at all?
This is essentially the same as the above, except you're defining the deck use. Same answer.Quote:
How many of you (traktor users) want to use C and D, but want at least one remix deck or live input?
How does having multiple PL-1s cause everything to fall apart? I use 2 PL-1s with Traktor and 4 deck switching on both with no problem. I actually LIKE the ability to address all of the decks on both units, because it allows me to swap deck position (deck based hamster style). And of course, if you wanted 2 PL-1 controllers to address 4 decks, you could very easily build a A/C TSI and a B/D TSI (honestly these will probably already be built and available, because I've already created them at the start of this little argument). This is the kind of TSI editing a novice could accomplish, however.Quote:
How many of you want to use more than one PL-1?
Does the PL-1 limit the ability of another connected controller to work properly?Quote:
How many of you have other controllers that you'll be using, so you don't need one PL-1 to control all four decks?
And how easy is it to map a 1:1 controller versus something that uses conditional logic and/or modifiers?Quote:
How many of you ever plan on editing the mapping in any way?
You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Okay Nemonic, You're mincing words. You know exactly what I was talking about, because you brought it up.
Obviously all of my questions were implying, "do you want to do xxxxxx and not:
A) have to hit the deck button a bunch of extra times mid-set
or
B) spend a long time implementing Nemonic's crazy workaround for his own product, which includes double mapping everything (making remapping much more difficult) and making the LEDs not work as intended?"
The point remains. The vast majority of users fit the use case you're claiming is just me. Very few people are going to want to have to count how many times they're hitting the deck button, depending on the deck, every single time the switch decks.
Oilythread, you're flogging a dead horse here. Normally I'd close this thread but since it's such a long running discussion, I'll leave it open. However, if you carry on with this argument I will give you a temporary ban.
Everyone just get back to pleasant conversation about this interesting new series of controllers. I'm sure nem0nic welcomes constructive criticism, but this has gone way past that now.
Are the pads on the DC-1 clicky like the NI F1?
And this comment shows just how uninformed and naive your opinion is. You've obviously never been involved in any kind of product support. And that's fine, lots of people haven't. But it's something I have to take into account.Quote:
Plus we're only talking about adding an option. if they don't want to, they don't have to, obviously. It's never a bad idea to add an option like this. Especially when it will fix such a huge problem.
Plus you have no idea of the kind of scale we deal with. Let me break it down for you with an example. We've sold around 500K units of the DJX700 series mixer since they were released. Now lets say that we implemented a "feature" that caused 3% of those users to call into support. That's 15000 support calls. Right now those products are 9 years old. That's 1666 calls per year. That's 4 support calls a day EVERY DAY FOR 9 YEARS. The average support call is about 10 minutes long for a known issue (once the customer info is taken, the problem is qualified, etc). That's 278 hours of someone's time (a year) at the current Washington minimum wage of $9.04 an hour (we pay our service guys more than minimum, but just for example), for a grand total of $2500 a year (for 9 years).
So at best, that little problem ends up costing us $22,618 (at minimum wage, which we don't pay), and it ties up a support guy for the better part of an hour every day for 9 years.
So no, I don't think your solution is a good one.
Yeah alright. I'm done. My only goal was keeping Behringer accountable for the flaw in the design of the PL-1, so that people don't buy them under false pretenses. I'd like it if Nemonic would at least go back to admitting that he didn't want to fix it because it wasn't worth it to them, rather than try to justify it.
He's being every bit as stubborn about that as I, so I gotta at least point out that (assuming you have the context of having read his messages a couple of weeks ago when he first explained that fact) it's honestly no more fair to tell me to stop than he...
But yes, I'm finished now.
EDIT: Oh no, look at that, he is back to admitting that he won't fix the problem because it's not cost effective for Behringer. Fair enough.
(He did also directly continue the argument though... Gotta point that out.)
You guy's don't pay minimum wage? For shame. ;PQuote:
Originally Posted by nem0nic
DC-1 pads, clicky clicky?
The F1 pads aren't clicky (at least the pads on mine aren't). But the pads (all the buttons really) went from hard plastic to rubber. There is still a tact switch under it, so I would say that the DC-1 pads are more clicky than the F1 for sure. But they still have the give of rubber buttons.Quote:
Are the pads on the DC-1 clicky like the NI F1?