make huge gameworlds to train special forces in australia, new zealand, UK, usarmy and usmc plus some others I cant mention hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Djtom420
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoGb7r8k-5E
Printable View
make huge gameworlds to train special forces in australia, new zealand, UK, usarmy and usmc plus some others I cant mention hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Djtom420
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoGb7r8k-5E
Yeah and reading what I wrote again i realized the same guys that I'm thinking said Osama got money from selling drugs are the same guys that said Sadam had WMD's.Quote:
Originally Posted by djfrogstar
The banning of guns seems to work well for England...Quote:
Originally Posted by Djtom420
Regardless, you seem to be blowing what I said a bit out of proportion, thus making you still feel it is ok to break the law by downloading music from torrents and blog sites. I am still waiting for you to be able to prove why it is ok for you to be able to break the law. Again, it seems you have crossed over into some magical mystery world where the law only needs to apply certain people where they feel the law fits. I am very interested in how you get to Djtom420's magical world of popcorn balls, lollipop rocket ships, and mythical dragons who download music torrents while you wrestle giant gummy bears and still manage to play with Ableton, Fruity loops, Acid Pro, and Sound Forge, all while escaping the realms of the Law.
rather easliy first off I dont DL music as I said before. I use torrents for linux stuff, as Im in IT. I also us torrents to trade LIVE dj mixes like john digweeds weekly BBC show, OLD DJ mixes tapes from the 80 & 90s that u cant get on CD or any where essentially u know DJ (insert local djs name)s mixed tape from b4 they got famous or whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceBlaise
Also, RE breaking the law. if u read my previous post i pasted the law there. the law is aimed at those that make recording or mp3s for upload to sites like TPB. not those that download them. so if one owns a record and downloads the mp3 from TPB while setting there upload speed to 0, then they are not breaking ANY LAWS.
P.S. and re banning guns in england. yes its worked so well with no citizens have guns, no police have guns and yet the criminals still have guns, Hmm yeah that worked really welll, do your research first before just saying somthing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vly
You do realize that the original poster asked if it was wrong to steal music right? So yes I am arguing the legality of the issue!
I guess you haven't read everything I wrote in this thread, or you would have seen where I wrote that artists must make their money now through touring and gigs. I wouldn't say that the digital revolution has made everything better. That is really how you personally look at things. I for one see it both ways... on one hand you have so much music now flooding the market, and a lot of it is just pure sh!t. Back in the day you had to do a lot of work to get your music heard by a abel or a dj etc... So now you have crappy labels and bad producers being able to get their music out there, plus everyone wants to be a producer and they cut a lot of corners. On the other hand, we have a lot of great producers out there now, and the costs of operating a label have literally been cut down to a small amount of overhead... There are lots of pros and cons here and like i said i think it really depends on the person on whether or not they thing everything going digital helped or hurt the industry.
last point i'll make:
so i have a vinyl containing a song i love.
NOW, tell me what the difference is between these:
1. i rip it myself to my comp.
2. i go and DL off a blog, or a torrent with no upload rate (therefore not sharing it with anyone else)
personally, i don't see the difference. i don't see how i'm "supporting" anything, as i'm not helping it distribute any more than it would have already. i'm grabbing it from a source, and keeping it for myself and only myself. there is no "support" you speak of. the end product is the same in both cases, no money is lost, and i have an mp3 of my song.
That may not be illegal as the law currently exists(not sure) BUT how did the file get there? If the artist or label didn't allow it then it's existence is illegal thus making your downloading of it potentially illegal at best(worst), certainly morally suspect. I don't want to keep flogging a dead horse but, for those that stand on the side of feeling they are in the right of downloading these files, what do you all do for a living? BTW I find this topic very interesting but I'm hoping we can keep it civil.Quote:
Originally Posted by djhipnotikk
I'm interested in the automatic assumption of some of the commentors that since something is "illegal" it is automatically wrong. Maybe I'm just a radical, but just because the state or a multinational company says something is wrong, doesn't necessarily mean that it is.
The Berne convention covers the law on copyright to all that have signed up. It is perfectly legal to burn a copy of your songs from vinyl or tape. However it is illegal to copy music from a cd to your PC. However there is a licence you can purchase to do this in certain countrys.
Software companys and the music industry both steal imense amounts of each other it is redicilous. Small lables do care about there acts. However the modern records industry is disgusting. They use people then chew them up and throw them away. Ofcourse there are exceptions. I really think though they should get with the times and remodel their business. However if you believe in an artist buy there music. Same with software if you beleive in the company buy thier stuff. I am a big fan of Native Instruments philosophy.
While again I only support someone DLing files they own a Vinyl or Cd of. I happen to be in IT. Systems administrator to be specific.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirReal;
I definitely don't believe that just because "it's" illegal, "it's" wrong but nobody has delivered an argument for downloading music off of the internet for free that doesn't inherently screw the artist. I personally couldn't care less about some multiconglomerate company, it's the artist that created the media that's ultimately screwed with the current state of things. And it's the frame of mind that it's ok to screw the person that created the thing you want, that I have a problem with. If I HONESTLY thought that every person who downloaded music off the internet without paying for it at the time, went and paid the artist personally if they liked or deleted it immediately if they weren't going to use it, then I'd be ok with it BUT that's not happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sano Insano
i don't think the way it got there matters to the end user in the example i made. if the file was uploaded/made available by illegal means, that's on the uploader. by downloading it you don't "support" them or their act if you already have purchased the song. just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirReal
this. lance seems to playing the ultra-law-abider role, and that's cool if you're morals are in the same stance. but to shut everyone and their arguments down for the simple fact it's deemed "illegal" is quite silly IMO. there are such things as unjust laws. not saying this one in particular is, just stating a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sano Insano
@DJTom420
I actually don't see an issue with the situation you pose BUT because the way the format currently exists allows for anyone to download said file, it allows for people who haven't ever paid for the song to get it for free. That's what I have a problem with and that's what I believe is a HUGE part of the problem with the current state of the industry.
And what about listening to a podcast that someone makes with DL mp3s? or going to a club pumping with insane bass, 3 girls pull you on the dancefloor and then you see the screen on the laptop of the current dj and your recognize how its labeled or titled as a rip.
Do you tell the girls.. sorry.. but this is illegal.. and storm out of the club. Even though you had nothing to do with the download.. but you sure are having a good time dancing to this stolen merchandise. What is the difference at this point. Are you so hardcore you will go call the police to shut the club down and send the feds. Why dont we go arresting famous directors of movies who blatantly ripped off other peoples works without giving credit... you can throw away movies like the terminator (phillip k. dick) or throw out starwars which is stolen from Kurosawa. I dont see their names mentioned in the credits. They got away with it... just like apple got away with their xerox theft and bill gates and his friends CL?(cant remember the last letter)
There are certain things which are not available to buy hardcopy or digital... but people upload them...
for all the insane thriftshop wierd stuff like hungarian 70s porn soundtracks or little marcy I love my little pussy childrens record.
so its on youtube.. but no where else unless you magically find someone on EBAY and buy the vinyl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXL9JXnzLLw
or what about downloading Rasheeds? I bet all you patriotic types would not be against this.
they may not pay the artist direct, but they put more money in the industry than the law abiders :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SirReal
http://arstechnica.com/media/news/20...rage-folks.arsQuote:
Those who download illegal copies of music over P2P networks are the biggest consumers of legal music options, according to a new study by the BI Norwegian School of Management. Researchers examined the music downloading habits of more than 1,900 Internet users over the age of 15, and found that illegal music connoisseurs are significantly more likely to purchase music than the average, non-P2P-loving user.
so hey all you people getting mad at pirates here, they support the industry more than you!
And u would be right. Im only arguing for the OP who said he OWNS the vinyl that he wants to DL. So he at one time paid for it so he should be able to get a digital copy how ever he gets it. Whether he records it from a TT, gets it form the label direct or gets it from Pirates bay or what ever torrent site. Im only arguing that its not stealing in the same way someone who just DLs mp3s without paying for them one way or the other, i.e. cd, tape, vinyl.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirReal
And u know i say this as someone who bought Dark side of the moon 3 times, the wall 3 times, Viynl, tape, CD. Green days dookie, tape, tape, then CD and then CD again. Greendays Nimrod, tape and CD the same fricken day. Every Nirvana album i owned on tape then CD. Oh shot, and Nine inch nails, I had pretty hate machine (the album that changed my life forever), brockn, and downward spiral ALL on tape and then repurchaed all of them on CD. so its not like I have been screwed by the media changes of the Record industry
Luckily i was able to digitize them all b4 i ever had to repurchase them again LOL....
U know I wonder if some of the loses the industry is feeling is people dont have to replace Stuck mp3s or scratched MP3s. i can back up everything on multiple harddrives and never lose it or have to replace it.
I have a problem with the logic of that study. It's based on people who use P2P networks. Older generations don't use them, I'd got as far as to say don't even know about them. Also, younger generations have always been the ones to purchase more music but the "survey" does no % comparison to a sales study of the same age range from previous years, before p2p, showing how much less is actaully spent on the same amount of product.
Damn IT Frog star I almost spit water all over my screen. I loled so loud my wife looked at me funny and i had to read her your post at which she LOLed to. So thank u for the LOLzzz....Quote:
Originally Posted by djfrogstar
@DJTom
And I was arguing the "devil's advocate side". I agree with your thought process and feel the same but think that in the current state of things it's wouldn't be prudent for the OP to do it. Maybe there needs to be some "media purchase #" associated with every media purchase(a password so to speak) that would allow the consumer to access the media in other formats, once purchased. I'm just trying to argue for the artist because I've seen too many get screwed by the current state of things and have to give up their art for an occupation that can pay the bills.
I doubt you will see a big named DJ in the techno scene playing ripped music. Not sure what or who you are listening to. I personally have not gone out to a club night to party in years, and I really only listen to the CLR podcast... I just don't have the time to go to clubs etc. But when I was frequenting clubs and stuff this wasn't really an issue. I personally don't have any DJ friends who are downloading illegal music, most of us don't have the time to be scouring the internet for torrents and download links for a track. I know I personally haven't purchased a track in the last 3 years at least, everything I play I get sent to me on promo. And promos themselves become a chore to search through.Quote:
Originally Posted by djfrogstar
Anyway, the point i am making is that I am not out listening to DJs who are stealing tracks on the internet... but that's me.
Nerdy much?Quote:
Originally Posted by Djtom420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djtom420
Police do have guns and yes the criminals do have guns too which will be a constant whatever gets banned.
At least though little timmy can't go to grandads arsenal and massacre his fellow pupils now!!! Couldn't resist, sorry.
WEll I gusse we are all not as privileged as u to get free music. Must be nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceBlaise
LOLz, im in IT and I on a DJ TECH site, yeah Im a nerd.. LOL Probabyl half if not more of the member of this site are nerd. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by LanceBlaise
Now embrace ur nerdyness,
Not all bobbies(not sure itf thats spelled right) carry guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyoog
LOL yeah, but atleast little timmy can keep King George and Queeny Elziabeth out of are homes. sorry couldn't help it. :D
yeah i'm not sure why he's even in this discussion if you have had no interaction with what we're talking about in at least the last 3 years.. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Djtom420
For every 1 solid track i get, there are 100 bad ones. Somedays it seems like a gift, where other days it is quite a burden. And for as much free music that i get and keep/use, I am giving the same amount away. I personally promo lots of my own music to many big named artists (with the label's permission of course), and I promo everything that both of my labels put out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djtom420
Like I said before, sifting through the promos can sometimes be just as time consuming as going track to track on beatport to find a golden gem. I still must find time to run 2 labels, produce, record a radio show, scour the internet and get rapidshare links taken down, and so on...:p:D
I have, but i am on the other end...Quote:
Originally Posted by djhipnotikk
The grass is always greener on the other side, at least it is until you get to the other side. When you do finally get there, you realize it was mostly smoke and mirrors. I do not envy the amount of work it obviously takes to be successful in the music business. I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy it, just that it's a lot harder than it looks.Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceBlaise
Quote:
Originally Posted by photojojo
Totally! It took hard work to get here, and it takes hard work to stay here and to keep on advancing! The grass is always greener on the other side, but getting music for free is nice, and having the gems before most other djs is nice also! :)
For the last 20 years THIS is whats wrong with he EDM scene. Big labels want the Big DJs to have the best tracks. While us little guys dont get the track until the big guys have been playing it for 6 months and by the tiime we got it its been played out. YEAH for the System, it works soooo well....Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceBlaise
Everyone wants to be an artist and get paid for their hobby. Nothing wrong with that. The personal satisfaction people get from manipulating a sound cannot be measured in $. Thats the end goal of any hobby, to enjoy what your doing. People dont understand that every era will have different factors. The info world now is a mix of control and no control over information.
I fully support all record labels trying to make it in this era.. but on the same note.. if they expect equal treatment and the chance to make money for their hard work... then we need to take it further...
all designers who worked on a record sleeve should be payed a percentage out of the money earned from a label.. or it shouldnt be allowed in the MP3 download. Why shouldnt those poor designers get money for their hardwork that is being used on itunes or whatever to show the cover of the album. Lets be fair now... regardless if you make your own cover... I dont care... but if you buy music online then lets add 30 cents to every 99 cent download and pay more for digital music so record labels will stop STEALING money out of the pockets of the designers who were probally ripped off in terms of what they got paid. Same goes with music videos... When a music video is made... Shadow low life record labels try and get the video made as cheap as possible by getting slave labor to make them. Record labels are crooks when it comes to getting free work/low ball numbers for music production. I think it should be illegal for record labels to post their videos on youtube unless they pay out the people who worked on them. Again I know some labels or artists are able to make their own videos to their songs. Record labels should pay everytime a logo appears on their product from the original designer..
all this is nonsense .. my point is people are being ripped off everyday in many ways. Do record labels sit there and think... man this single sold really well and now that we have put the artwork we paid for onto flyers posters etc.. and we only had to pay him one time. No I say its a per use. because your stealing the soul of the artist(designer) and using his art again to generate money.
Um, well its one way to promote the music. Its always how its been done, either by mailing out the records or by now sending an mp3. Most things get sent out on promo by labels about 3 weeks in advance, so I don't think the stuff is getting played for 6 months by the big names. Usually when this happens its because the track was given to the big name DJ by the person who produced the track. Half the time the track isn't signed and its being played out live in sets. This isn't really a problem, its not like every single big name DJ has it and hey are rocking it all over the world and then it comes out on beatport and no one wants to hear it anymore... Like I said, most label promos are sent a few weeks prior to the release date, tracks shouldn't be stale after just a few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djtom420
Dont know how old u r lance, but back in the late 90s I remember a track called, "the launch" and that track was getting played 6 months before it was released. Seemd every big name DJ in los angeles had the track, but u couldnt find it ANYWHERE out here. by the time it was release that song was PLAYED OUT!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceBlaise
this was of course before beatport.
Unfortunately that is not the way this industry works. The people who make the artwork sign a contract and agree to a one time fee, which is probably better for them then having to wait for a 10% margin of sales after the distributor takes their cut, and so on. I for one in the pasthave been on the end as a designer, and getting money to make a cover for a single sold on Beatport is way better than any tiny percentage i would get paid, especially when the label would come back to me and tell me, "hey we only made $100 of this EP because its all over blog and torrent sites so no one is buying it, but don't worry everyone is playing it so the producer got great exposure... here is $10 for all your hardwork." So now before where the designer could have had $150 he now gets $10 cause of you cutting him in on that sweet % deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by djfrogstar
Labels lots of times lose money because they pay an artist a fee upfront for the music. If that track gets leaked then the artist still got his cut, but the label now lost their chance of making the proper amount of money they deserved. Its a big gamble nowadays, and really it boils down to, Who is going to take the gamble, the artist or the label...?"
Well lets just say I am old enough to know that track when it was out... And there are exceptions to everything, but today most releases are promo'd to DJ about 3 weeks before the actual release date. Again there are always exceptions, and there are always tracks that are sent out by the producer to other DJs. I know I have received tracks from friends that were not signed yet, and I played the tracks for like 4 months before they were released, but the tracks weren't over played or anything like that... It really depends on the situation, but I think you are being a bit extreme thinking that this is hurting the industry. Its important as a label and as an artist to have the support of fellow djs/producers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djtom420
Well this is inherently the labels fault for hiring people that obviously cant be trusted.Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceBlaise
The last company I worked with as a consultant we secured an entire studio recording system so that NO ONE could make copys and remove them from the studio this included band members as well. We also cut out internet access to the studio so as to keep engineers from emailing tracks. there were no leaks of this album prior to the official release, i will not name the artist here but u either LOVE them or HATE them. If more labels took these precautions leaks wouldn't be an issue.
MY wife used to be a graphic designer doing singles, albums, thirsts, and logo work. She no loner does this anymore, theres no money in it.
Not trying to get to OT here or start a thing, but i just have some experience in this arena.
It's not stealing but copyright infringement. Completely different things.
In spite of claims to the contrary, depending on where you live and how you download files it's not necessarily illegal. Copyright law is more complex than people assume.
Even in situations where it is illegal, it's not criminal, but could potentially be grounds for a civil suit against you. Which makes it unenforceable.
No, i wasn't saying it Hurts the industry, not all all. I was saying its one of the problems with this industry for the little guy. And I really only say that as a local DJ and not as a big name DJ. its really just an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceBlaise
Things are better now with beatport and tracksource. back in the day labels never knew if a track was gonna be a big or not. So some tracks only got like 5000 pressing and it would take months for the next batch to come through, IE robert miles childeren circa 98-99. You couldnt find that record anywhere but on Ebay for like 30 of 50 bux. Now a days they dont limit mp3 pressings. LOL
Also,
There are a bunch of you in here asserting that filesharing is hurting the music industry. Please check your facts: there's been good research on this (bunch of references in an article I wrote last year at http://publicacta.org.nz/acta-what-b...o-new-zealand/)
Basically, filesharing A: has no measurable impact on record labels and B: confers a measurable benefit to independent and small artists. Feel free to be opposed to filesharing, but at least make sure you've read and understood the *actual* impact it has instead of blindly assuming one :)
I think this has been posted like 3 times in the previos pages of this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by willrjmarshall