Behringer CMD Series

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Originally Posted by nem0nic

The mistake many people outside of the industry make is that this is somehow a zero-sum game, and that there is only room in the market for one or two players. Everyone sees it as either-or. That isn't at all how the business actually is. There are lots of companies making money selling product. There isn't a "winner" out there, and if you tried to assign one based on what you've gleaned from forums and your limited view of the industry, you'd most certainly get that guess wrong.

Fact is that there's plenty of business out there for companies like NI and Numark, AND Behringer. Not only that, but our target market for CMD is not at all the target market for something like the F1. And this is what gives me the most confidence in the CMD controller line. Not only do the controllers fill niches that other controllers miss, but they all work together in a system that eliminates the question of "Does thing X work with thing Y?". And as the CMD line fills out, that will only get more true.

Finally, I've said this many times before. I would take it as a compliment if another company came out with CMD. It would not only validate what I've believed for ages (that a modular approach to controllers is valid), but it would help sales of other modular products.

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I hear you, but lately in computers and DJ gear, the people who aren't the top winners are making stupid mistakes and abandoning products and consumers.

I seem to fall into that trap many times. I remember when Stanton abandoned Final Scratch, then M-Audio and AVID abandoned Torq. On a different note I had Lenovo abandon it's Android Thinkpad Tablet.

It's made me reluctant now to buy from any company that isn't in the group of the "top companies". It's why I bought Traktor, and why I'm reluctant to buy another Android tablet. Not to mention how much DJing seems to be opening up for the iPad.

I'm not saying I'm dismissing Behringer, but like I said, the long delays and lack of info only make me reluctant, and I know it sucks for the "little guys" or the guys who are trying to move their way into the big spots.

I'll still be patient, but I still think we'll see announcements and unveilings come CES and NAMM. I just won't shoot the messenger.

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I hear you, but lately in computers and DJ gear, the people who aren't the top winners are making stupid mistakes and abandoning products and consumers.

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Out of curiosity, what would you consider a stupid mistake by a DJ company in the last year or so?

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I remember when Stanton abandoned Final Scratch, then M-Audio and AVID abandoned Torq.

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Stanton didn't abandon Final Scratch, and M-Audio didn't abandon Torq. Final Scratch ran it's course (over 6 years of active development, with 2 iterations for hardware and many more for software), and established the market for digital vinyl systems. M-Audio developed the Torq software, came out with 2 pieces of dedicated hardware (and developed more), and released a major point release (along with many updates). M-Audio was purchased by InMusic, and it's currently unknown if the Torq software will be actively developed.

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It's made me reluctant now to buy from any company that isn't in the group of the "top companies"...

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I get that, but there are never any guaranties. And your particular experience isn't everyone's. I think that's especially true when the cost of the products you're taking a chance on cost much less than other offerings in the market. Maybe I would agree with you on something over $500, but on a $149 product the risk is much less. There's also no penalty if CMD goes away. If you bought a CMD controller and Behringer closed the next day, that wouldn't make your controller stop working. Just because M-Audio quit making the Trigger Finger doesn't mean I can no longer use my Trigger Finger. Whenever possible, the CMD controllers use open standards (like MIDI). They will never require any special effort on the part of users or developers to make work.

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I'm not saying I'm dismissing Behringer, but like I said, the long delays and lack of info only make me reluctant, and I know it sucks for the "little guys" or the guys who are trying to move their way into the big spots.

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The "long delay" everyone is complaining about is actually a quarter. That's 3 months. And there was a great reason for it, because it means you guys are getting a better product. As for lack of info, here I am - the developer of the hardware - talking to you about the products. I'm not giving a specific release date because there isn't one. The answer is "when they're finished". But we're very close, and I think the wait is worth it.

1000 posts! :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by nem0nic

1000 posts! :thumbup:

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And we were convinced you're keeping 1000th post for release date :D

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Originally Posted by nem0nic

The answer is "when they're finished".

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the right answer IMO.

you dont go to a restaurant and start saying "WHEN IS MY BURGER GONNA BE DONE"
unless you want to get it undercooked and shit upon.

good things take good time.

You see, we understand that it's only three months. But when you have other companies announce a product, give a release date, and release it promptly, then three months seems like eternity. It seems like other established companies don't make big announcements unless they have their shit together with what they're announcing. If you guys werent 100% certain they were close to being ready then you shouldn't have announced them only to say "they'll be ready when they're ready". What other company would do that? And although you guys never set a firm release date, Uli himself said in an interview to expect them in October. October came a went and now we continue to wait, and wait, and wait.

^^^ this.

The problem isn't even how long they've been delayed... The original release date was a joke as well.
These were announced in what? February? March? Even if they had been released in October, that's EIGHT/NINE months. I've always noticed THREE months being pretty average with DJ gear. Here we are eleven months in and it doesn't even sound like they have finished production yet... This project is a joke to me at this point.

Who cares if it's a joke to you? Isn't it very pitiful to go through the process of typing and posting just to say that? What do you hope to accomplish?

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If you guys werent 100% certain they were close to being ready then you shouldn't have announced them only to say "they'll be ready when they're ready".

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But what is the problem with an early announcement?

People complain about companies not communicating with users. So here's a company that communicates a product release that is expected to happen 9 months later. That decision was made because (a) fully working prototypes were available to show, and (b) because this was a very big change in their product lineup. Instead of keeping people in the dark, or playing coy, they said "Here, look at what we're working on.". It's not some under glass vaporware - it's live stuff you can put your hands on.

I'm missing the part where that kind of communication is a bad thing.

Essentially what you're complaining about is that once a product is announced, you feel entitled to it. You don't think you should have to wait for it to be released. And you feel so strongly about this that you would apparently rather be kept in the dark than wait.

Doesn't this sound like childish behavior to you?

If you weren't being communicated to, I might understand it. If CMD were shown non-functioning under glass like the X7 or the VCI-B1 I might understand it. But none of that is true.

Apparently no good deed goes unpunished.

I believe most of the crankiness is not about how early Behringer announced it.... It's just how long it's taken. Simple midi controllers should not take over a year to bring even from the design stage to the release stage.